Michael David Wilson 0:09
Welcome to the This Is Horror podcast. I'm your host, Michael Wilson, and today myself and Dan Howarth are going to be reconvening with Paul Tremblay for part two of our interview. If you'd like to listen to part one first, and please do head on over to the this is horror website and check out episode 47 where we talked Paul about his new novel, a head full of ghosts, The Exorcist, classic horror and much more. But for those of you who have listened to part one, or those of you who just want to jump straight in to part two, here is our interview with Paul Tremblay, and now for our horror

I think of all the references in a head full of ghosts, my favorite had to be calling the blog, the last final girl, and then later in the story, Stephen Graham Jones shows up. I mean, I, I don't know how many people you know will kind of twig onto that, obviously, within the genre community, everyone, but, but, you know, I mean, if this is to be optioned and to go really mainstream, I mean, that's just amazing. The last final girl and Stephen Graham Jones actually in the novel.

Paul Tremblay 1:54
Yeah? Well, Steven's a good friend of mine. He's a great guy, you know, an amazing writer, one of my favorite writers. So, yeah, I definitely wanted to give a nod to how much his work has meant to me, even one of his early novels, demon theory, if you've ever got a chance to read it, read it in hardcover form, because it has footnotes, and the footnotes do a lot of references to other movies that the novel itself is written as a treatment For a trilogy of movies, and within this treatment of movies that's going on, there's references to other movies. Sorry, I definitely wanted to give Stephen A shout out as someone who's inspired me, and he's a good friend, and also take a little dig at him because he's too Dan handsome. So I wanted to make sure, I wanted to make sure that the fictional Stephen Graham Jones was not as stunningly good looking as he is in real life.

Dan Howarth 2:45
And what was it? What was it like writing with Stephen? When you when you created your project together,

Paul Tremblay 2:51
that was a blast. He's so easy to work with. Really. The only issue that ever came up is he writes so damn fast. My original plan when I pitched them is okay, why don't we try writing this, a co written, YA novel. It'll be like I told now, you know, we'll take it easy, no pressure. When I'm working on my part, you can be working on something else. When you're a worker on your part, I'll work on something else. But yeah, I would spend like, a week or two on a chapter and then send it to him, and then you would have the next chapter to me, like the next day, seemingly. So that was my only struggle, trying to keep up the pace with which that he writes. But it was a lot of fun. I felt like our sort of styles were were sort of definitely very compatible, sort of easy to mold and mesh together. Yeah. I mean, if we ever, I would love to do it again, if we ever have the time or the opportunity,

Dan Howarth 3:41
no, it's interesting. Just just wondering what it was like, you know, kind of writing with with somebody else. You know, obviously, there's the kind of pressure that he was clearly putting you under by by churning out the words incredibly quickly. But no, just to kind of share that creative process with somebody must be, you know, obviously writing is a very solitary act, so to have two brains working on a story or just wondering whether it was kind of more a help than a hindrance or the other way around, yeah. I

Paul Tremblay 4:10
mean, it has, I would say, a different set of challenges than when you're working on a book on your own, because you are sort of trying to put together two different visions. And, you know, no matter how you know, compatible your your styles or ideas might be. I mean, there's always going to be a certain point where you might want to cut something and he might want to cut something, but I mean, that part of it, really, I don't even remember having any we certainly didn't have any arguments, or really any disagreements, even over like, what should stay or what should go? You know, it's, I mean, when you do with someone that it works with, I mean, it's, I know, it's a lot of fun. I mean, I've done some collaborations and short stories before. I've had a couple that just petered out and didn't work, which was fine, you know, no hard feel. Things. So I do think part of it is just, you know, finding someone that you, you know, do work well with, obviously, is important. Yeah,

Dan Howarth 5:07
without a doubt. So, like, I think I did I jump in ahead of you before.

Michael David Wilson 5:12
So you said when you were co writing floating boy and a girl who couldn't fly, that you're also working on other projects. Is there something that you do a lot kind of multitasking and having a couple of stories on the go? Or was that more a one off because of the nature of that being a collaborative effort? Yeah,

Paul Tremblay 5:35
that's where my other mistake is. I'm not very good at multitasking within like writing different stories at the same time. I tend to only be able to be working on one thing at a time. That's a when I've written novels in the past. I have if I if a short story sort of gets thrown my way, I'll do it. But what ends up happening normally is I basically just put the novel aside and work on the short story for like, a couple weeks as a break, and then go back to the novel part of it's just time management. I don't have, you know, a ton of writing time per day, usually. So if I'm working on something, it usually sucks up my writing energy for the day, like even now, like doing answering interview questions, you know, through email for handful of ghost promotion. You know, that kind of stuff takes me a while. Like yesterday, I spent a couple hours finishing up an interview, and, you know, I didn't get anything new done on the new novel yesterday. So while I feel I can juggle other sort of tasks or simultaneous tasks, the actual stories themselves is not something that I tend to be able to juggle very

Michael David Wilson 6:46
well. Do you find what you're reading and the the narrative voices of the authors that you're reading kind of can influence your own writing? I mean, obviously there was quite an extreme example you gave earlier, where you start reading a non fiction book on The Exorcist that has completely shut off your your work in progress for for an exorcism novel, but that aside, I mean, is that something you ever face difficulties with? Because I know that there are some novelists who pretty much refuse to read any fiction when they're writing, which, right, seems a bit sad to me, given, you know what, what a passion it is to be reading and writing.

Paul Tremblay 7:30
No, absolutely. I mean, every every writer is different. So I certainly wouldn't like prescribe, like my method is the best method, or anybody's method is the best method. But for me, especially now, I really don't worry at all about, I guess, for the intrusion of another voice on my voice, I feel like I've been doing it long enough that I'm pretty comfortable what my voice is and will be in a particular book that I'm working on, and I actively welcome other ideas while I'm working on a book. To me that's that's sort of a part of the discovery of writing. I can't all my books have benefited from what I feel like are sort of happy, you know, happenstance or discoveries. Well, you know, unexpected discoveries while I was working on a book and I happened to be reading something else. I mean, it happened quite a bit in a head full of ghosts, a lot of stuff. You know, not that I had a detailed outline, like we discussed before, not like I had a, you know, that going into the novel, but there were so many things that I didn't expect that I found along the way that you know, really just, you know, made the book hopefully, you know better, you know, hopefully made it a good book. So, you know, I when I talk to writers who ask me for advice, and if I give advice, I tell them to welcome influence, to steal from everyone and everything all the time. And you know, trust that you'll get to the point as a writer, that you'll be able to take those influences and ideas and spin it through your own lens of experience. Because everybody's lens of experience is different. So I think that's that's ultimately what it is to become a writer, is to be able to trust that euro and sort of viewpoint your own lens is going to be able to present, even if it's an old idea, be able to present it in a new way.

Michael David Wilson 9:13
And what happened to the novel that you were working on the I can't remember the exact title, something like, why won't the art Manson reply to my letters? Yeah, what happened to that?

Paul Tremblay 9:27
Yeah, I don't know. I might go back to that. I might sort of cannibalize what I'd started and either make it into a novella, or I was actually thinking of turning it, taking it and making a novel where there's two these two different storylines going together. So I'm definitely going to use it at some point. I to use it at some point. I just haven't decided how I'm going to use it or reuse it.

Michael David Wilson 9:47
And despite the dip that you had before, a head full of ghosts, in terms of the frustrations with Amazon and Macmillan, it sounds like things must have picked up pretty cool. Quickly now for you, because obviously you've also now got another novel that you're working on, on deadline for the first draft in July. So am I right in thinking that a head full of ghosts and this other novel were commissioned quite closely together? Yeah,

Paul Tremblay 10:19
when I sold the head full of ghost, I signed a two book deal with William Morrow so and the second book was just to be nebulously described as a literary horror novel. So it's certainly not a we already discussed it. It's clearly not a a sequel or anything to a head full of ghosts. I do, I do find that this book, I know, in some ways, thematically, might work a little bit together with the headphone goes. We'll see. We'll see what stays and what doesn't stay when I when I cut every stuff out of the first draft.

Michael David Wilson 10:54
I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I would assume you wouldn't really want to write a sequel on a head full of ghosts. It seems quite self contained. I mean, certainly in terms of the whole exorcism story, at least. I mean, maybe we could follow the protagonist and find out, you know, what happens later to her in life and how messed up she is as a result of what she went through.

Paul Tremblay 11:21
No, absolutely. I just realized you can't see me vigorously nodding my head, but no intention of ever writing a sequel to the book. In fact, even as a reader, I'm not interested. I have very little interest in reading series. It's just, I mean, there's nothing innately wrong with them. It's just my own interest as a reader. I like reading a contained story, and I love jumping to something completely different after that. Even, like with my first book deal, I had a little sleep when I had sent it to my agent, I said, Look, this is the only this is Mark janovich story. This is the only one I'm writing, because I felt that was self contained as well. He said, okay, yeah, sure. But we sold it to Henry Holt, you know, it was a two book deal, and they wanted the second book to feature, you know, the same detective. So I figured there were worse problems to have in life than having to write a second novel. So I did it. But you know, so I'm very proud of no sleep to Wonderland. But, I mean, I hadn't intended on writing that sequel. So, yeah, I'm trying to avoid book sequels wherever possible, unless a handful of ghosts sells 30 million copies and then all they want for me is those. I might have to break down and do it.

Dan Howarth 12:34
I'll sell out. Well, you heard it. Heard it here first. That's, that's the magic number. 30 million people will quote you on that now, yeah, I was just going to ask about the short form that you know, obviously your collection in the meantime, is book that I read and really enjoyed the blog at the end of the world in particular was, was one of my favorites. I was just, I was just wondering, in terms of kind of the experimentation and the different styles that you use, is there anything, you know, in terms of something kind of radically different that you'd like to try in terms of, you know, maybe, do you use in second person or something like that, that you want to kind of try out that you haven't really had the chance to to do yet in terms of how to, how to narrate a story.

Paul Tremblay 13:27
I'm, I'm definitely always interested in how stories, you know, can be presented or narrated. You know, I don't have anything in mind, per se, but, you know, I certainly do. I don't see myself getting away from sort of experimenting or trying, you know, somewhat different ways. I mean, it's funny, like, all these ways that we talk about are experimental, we've already probably, or not probably we've already been done by like Donald Barthelemy, you and other writers and, you know, and Mark Danielle ski, obviously, that's one of the appeals of his novel to me, was just how, how that novel was presented, you know, not only just in terms of the four different stories, you know, going together, but the narrative frames and just even the physical look of the book. So, yeah, I don't know. I feel like, with the novel, I don't know. I feel like it's almost harder to be too experimental, although I guess I was with a head full of ghosts. Because, you know, you can certainly try the patience of of the reader to go back to Danielle ski, and as much as I love House of Leaves, that's as much as I hated, only revolutions, I just felt like, you know, sort of the postmodern tricks he used for that book were contrived and didn't add to the story, and were just sort of there for the sake of being there, which is something I would never want to do with my own writing. Whatever you do, it has to serve the story in some way. It has to have some sort of meaning, or if you are going to annoy the reader. No, no,

Dan Howarth 14:55
I can see that. I mean, sometimes is the, you know, this kind of you blurt all. Line between telling a good story in an interesting way, or just kind of, you know, using a technique for the sake of almost showing off as an author, and saying, Look, you know, look at what I can do. You know, this, there can be a style over substance argument. Really can't us. So, no, I was just, I just thought it's interesting, really, is there's the blog at the end of the world, and obviously, head full of ghosts, in terms of, like, the, I know, I've never said this word out loud. Episcollery, is that how you say it out loud? I think so. I'm kind of, I'm kind of looking at my microphone as if I'm looking at Michael, and he's gonna, he's gonna nod.

Paul Tremblay 15:39
Epistolary out here. Epistolary,

Dan Howarth 15:41
yeah, that one, right? That one, yeah, that's, that's one that I've always kind of wanted to try, but can never quite make work myself, and it's something I really enjoy reading. So yeah, the blog at the end of the world really takes a couple of boxes for me. So thanks. Yeah, I enjoyed that one. Yeah. So

Paul Tremblay 16:00
that you know, you were talking about wanting the novel that sort of talks about the digital age. So for me, you know that short story was about my fear of the digital age. And you know, you have the two different sort of viewpoints of what may or may not be happening. And you know, even you have examples of how people interact within the comments. You know, there's a troll, there's people trying defending the original poster. And I wrote that story specifically once I had the idea for cheesy online fiction contest. So I knew if it were to win, it would be published online. So I thought it'd be kind of fun if I wrote the story in blog form, and then if it wins, we would actually publish it in a blog form, which they did the first year they had it live on the web for about a year. It was actually published as a fake blog, so you could have clicked on the different comments or links and read the story in any order that you wanted to, which was kind of cool.

Dan Howarth 16:53
Wow, yeah, that is pretty cool, actually. So really good. Yeah, it's

Paul Tremblay 16:56
sort of a shame that you know they couldn't host it anymore, because it cost them money to host it, but, yeah, nothing lasts forever. Story,

Michael David Wilson 17:08
speaking of short stories, you've recently narrated, swim wants to know if it's as bad as swim thinks for this is horror. So that will be an episode that will be going out soon, it will actually be going out after the interview. So normally, we'll have the story and then an interview discussing it. But because of the nature of when we're going to put this one out, and particularly with a head full of ghosts, you know, being hot off the press at the moment, could you tell us a little bit about swim? Wants to know if it's as bad as swim thinks without, without kind of giving anything away. Maybe you can't. Maybe the answer is no.

Paul Tremblay 17:55
Well, I mean, I guess it's a short story from the point of view of a woman who you know is struggling, you know, is really sort of down and out, struggling with addiction, and, you know, her life sort of falling apart. She's a mother of a of a daughter who's been taken away from her based on things that she'd done previously in her life. And there may or may not be some giant monsters in it as well. How's that?

Michael David Wilson 18:22
Yeah, yeah, I think that ticks the boxes. So I mean, what? What kind of difference in terms of mentality and process do you have when you're approaching the short story as opposed to the novel as a writer,

Paul Tremblay 18:41
terms of mentality, you know, one thing I definitely do with short stories, I should say, Don't do a short stories, is I never outline them or write a summary of what I think is going to happen with novels. I probably done that about 50% of the time. I mean, even though I didn't do an outline with a head full of ghosts, I did sort of create some of the scaffolding beforehand. Anyway. With short stories, I tend to just work off an idea, and I may or may not have an idea of where the story is going to end or what's going to happen. With novels, I usually have an idea of the beginning and the end, and then I have to figure out what the heck happens in the middle to get there. You know, otherwise. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I don't. I tend to be a superstitious fellow, despite my agnostic proclamations from earlier. I feel like if I think about too much about the process, sometimes I can get in my own way, and not, you know, and sort of lose myself in that rabbit hole. So I don't if I'm writing a short story. I tend not. I tend not to think about how it's different than a novel. I just try to, yeah, write the best short story that I can. I will say that before writing novels, my short stories tend to be a lot shorter, like in the 3000 35,000 or 3500 4000 word range, but since I've been writing novels, they've been steadily getting longer. They're not John Langan long, which is my favorite short story reference, but they seem to be creeping in, like approaching, I don't know, maybe my two processes are sort of starting to intermingle a little bit.

Michael David Wilson 20:20
And so do you find that that you finished all of the stories that you set off writing? Because, I mean, sometimes people talk about, if they don't have an outline, it can be difficult to finish the work, or they, you know, it can go off in such strange tangents that it's difficult to find the narrative which might be a strength for you because you said you were more concerned with character anyway. But then I suppose sometimes the reverse is, if you plan out too much, you remove some of the magic as a creator. So then you might abandon the work, because you know what's going to happen, and it's became as poor as any other day job.

Paul Tremblay 21:09
Yeah, I mean, I think you just perfectly, sort of nailed the fears of both sides on the head. I mean, those are definitely two things I think about or worry about on either side, if I, if I do have that outline, you know, particularly for a novel, if I don't that's one thing I've actually been sort of struggling with a little bit with the new novel I'm working on, is this is to sort of by the numbers, robotic, because I did write this outline first, you know, I'm like, Oh, this kind of seems like it's, you know, you think, well, that's sort of expected, like, but then I try to remind myself, Oh, No, wait a minute. The reader doesn't know about this. Know about this outline that I have next to me, so hopefully it'll be unexpected to them in terms of finishing things. You know, much more early on in I guess, my writing life, I would not finish things, but I tend to finish most everything these days, you know, although, as I mentioned, I have that 100 pages of a novel that, you know, I'd like to go back to, but I'm not sure if I will or not. And I have, like, pieces of a couple of short stories that I may or may not go back to, and I think it's okay as a way to give yourself permission to to leave things along the side of the road. I would only worry if, if it gets to the point where most of the things that you're writing you aren't finishing,

Michael David Wilson 22:22
yeah? Well, I think with your five novels and goodness knows how many short stories, yeah, you're allowed to not finish a few stories now and again. Sure.

Paul Tremblay 22:35
Yeah. And I, you know, I tell people, you know, my when I saw my first novel, you know, the little sleep is my first. You know, Soul novel was really like the fourth and a half that I had written. One of the novels swallowing a donkey's eye I'd sold after the little sleep. And I rewrote that after the little sleep as well, but I had written an early draft of that before. I have a really bad like one of the first things I ever wrote, Stephen King, sort of esque knockoff that safely in the trunk, will never see the light of day. I started another horror novel. You know, this was back in the late 90s, early 2000s that I got maybe 100 pages into, and then sort of petered out. And then I wrote a novel called phobia, which was sort of a weird comedy in Boston, which I never sold, but I did get my agent, Steve and Barbara with so even though it didn't sell, it certainly impacted, you know, my career got me my agent who, you know, who was still my agent and a good friend. So, I mean, hey, it's okay if it doesn't sell, it's okay if you don't finish it. You know, everything you write is going to help you as a writer, just get better.

Michael David Wilson 23:37
And one of the things you said in an interview was that, as a writer, you're fascinated with the horror of consequence and of decision more than the horror of what if. I wondered if you could elaborate on that a little bit more.

Paul Tremblay 23:54
Yeah, sure. I mean, I mean, obviously the horror of what if, you know, is sort of what people come for, you know, you know, Clive Barker, for example, was a writer that, really, you know, when I read all his sort of classic 1980s books, really opened my eyes to, you know, the possibility of horror, of the What If. But I still think a lot of Clive's best stuff, you know, answers the question, okay, this, you know, this amazingly incredible, incredibly horrific thing happens, or this, you know, this truth is revealed. But I'm always interested in that next step. I think that's, you know, I'm interested in what people do, like, how does anybody live through that? Or, how does anybody live through this? How do we live through what we're living through now? I mean, to me, I think that's those are the questions of art and literature and when and when it's when horror is done. Well, I feel like, you know, there's no other genre or even mode of fiction that is better equipped to deal with, you know, the darker aspects of existence, you know. And. Um, and I want to know, I mean, really, most of the characters are right about the character in swim. Wants to know what swim thinks that we talked about. I mean, I want to know, like, how people, you know, who who haven't had things go their way in their lives. I want to know how they deal with it. I know I feel like, in a weird way, when horror starts from a place of empathy, those are going to be your best horror stories. I think I just totally rambled over at that question, but you get the gist.

Michael David Wilson 25:29
No, I think it was a good answer. And I mean in terms of looking at what people do when, when faced with with with like these horrific, I guess, life events and the consequences as you, as you put it, I think that's something that you comes across in a head full of ghosts. Because obviously, straight away, not only are we dealing with, I guess the meat of the story, so the possession, but we're looking at the aftermath in terms of an interview, um, and and then speaking of of that. So you've kind of gone for the novelization of the classic exorcism trope. Are there any other classic horror stories that you want to retell, or monsters that you want to kind of look at, giving your take on them?

Paul Tremblay 26:37
Yeah, I would. I do not have an idea for you, and actually tried to come up with one last summer for the book that I'm working on now, but, uh, and I certainly will retry it later. But I would love to be able to write somehow, you know, a giant monster story or novel, or a novel length story about, you know, some sort of large creature I feel like would be a challenge, obviously, since I haven't been able to come up with an idea for one yet, but yeah, that's sort of something I've been thinking about. I would love to be able to try that.

Michael David Wilson 27:08
Well, we'll keep

Dan Howarth 27:10
an eye out for that one.

Michael David Wilson 27:15
So Dan, did you want to ask more questions on short stories and this collection? Specifically,

Dan Howarth 27:23
I was off rambling about the NBA when I drifted away. Sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I distracted myself, and now I can't remember where I was before. I'm terrible for this. Sorry, Paul, very much. No

Paul Tremblay 27:39
worries

Michael David Wilson 27:41
if I remembered you were talking about basketball, I would not have reintroduced you to Okay, don't

Dan Howarth 27:50
you worry. You know, I only interrupt to put you off.

Paul Tremblay 27:54
Well, I'll just add that the the only thing that I'm like, really cocky, obnoxiously cocky, about in life, is my ability to shoot three pointers, even at my somewhat advanced age, I'd be willing to take on all comers. In fact, I'd go so far as to say is I am the best outside shooting horror writer in the world right now. Currently,

Michael David Wilson 28:18
there you go. Everyone listening has been put down.

Dan Howarth 28:25
Well, I actually see that Kevin Lucia, the horror writers, just brought out a new collection today. Funnily enough, he has been posted on Facebook about getting back into basketball. So who knows, he may hear this and decide to take you up. You know you could have to put your money where your mouth is a game of horse or something worse. Who knows? Lace

Paul Tremblay 28:49
them up. Kevin, I'm ready.

Dan Howarth 28:53
Oh, God, what have we started here? Michael,

Paul Tremblay 28:55
it was my Stephen Graham Jones is a big basketball fan as well, but he keeps hurting himself. So I know, I don't think he plays often very more, or he doesn't play very often anymore. You know, he at certain points in his life, he was posting gruesome pictures of knee surgery on Twitter, in his blog, and actually, he tore his Achilles. I don't know if that was in basketball. He actually was in basketball that he tore his Achilles. So, so there's one foe, one foe I have vanquished without even really having to do anything.

Dan Howarth 29:29
Have you? Have you heard that Jones? He's calling you out. He's saying that he's too soft. Let's Let's keep this going. This could be horrendous.

Michael David Wilson 29:38
Well, I think that Steven RAM Jones is supremely talented in so many areas that you know, we don't need him to be good at basketball as well. There are some

Dan Howarth 29:49
talent, yeah, leave something for the rest of us. Oh dear. See this what happens, Michael, when I get distracted, I'm. Sorry. I'm sorry, I was thinking about basketball. Do

Paul Tremblay 30:03
you play basketball? Are you a fan of basketball? Then?

Dan Howarth 30:06
Yeah, I did. Used to play play. Used to play when I was at uni, and, well, as a teenager, really, I've not played for for quite a while, but still keep up. So it was game one of the finals last night, wasn't it? So that's what made me think of it, when you mentioned it before.

Paul Tremblay 30:23
Yeah, well, I mean, I grew up in just north of Boston during the heyday of the Larry Bird Boston Celtics, so it was impossible, at least for me to not become, you know, a huge basketball fan and want to be Larry Bird. And I actually part, as part of my teaching day job, I coach the high school junior varsity basketball team in the winter.

Dan Howarth 30:44
Oh, cool. You guys, any good? It

Paul Tremblay 30:48
changes year to year. This past year we were around like 500 last year we were really good, like 13 and three or something like that.

Dan Howarth 30:56
Cool. No, it's good. That's interesting. No, I remember. I remember seeing a picture that you put on Facebook, I think actually, where you were writing by the side of a basketball court or something. I was like, Yeah, I could get on board with that. That looks like a pretty sweet lifestyle.

Paul Tremblay 31:12
Yeah. I mean, that goes back to we talk about time management, but yeah, I remember that picture. My son was actually at a college doing a baseball clinic. He's a, he's a good pitcher, baseball pitcher. But I was out in the hallway, and the girls basketball team is practicing behind me, you know, all I could hear was the bouncing of the balls. And, you know, I was trying to work on the novel that, you know, that I'm currently working on, because that Sunday, though, I knew that was the only time I was going to be able to work

Dan Howarth 31:41
on it. So, yeah, forcing. Your work out through the through the din of 17 basketballs bouncing background.

Paul Tremblay 31:49
It is a nice sound, though it soothes me. Anyway,

Dan Howarth 31:52
yeah, definitely the squeak of, you know, rubber on parking is always a reassuring sound, isn't it? So absolutely cool.

Michael David Wilson 32:03
So speaking of productivity, which you did mention amongst all that basketball Katter, do you have any kind of productivity hacks or tips for people listening who want to get a little bit more productive in terms of their writing?

Paul Tremblay 32:21
You know, other than, you know, maybe just have your laptop or, you know, a notebook would do at all times, because you never know when you're going to have, you never know when you're going to have, like, unexpected time that'd be really my only thing. Because I feel like I'm becoming, my battle to get down in front of the laptop is becoming, not harder, but I go through, like, this process of self doubt and beating up and procrastination. It's not the healthiest thing in the world to do, but I finally get there, yeah, you know, it's fine through this whole process. You know, the idea of, ah, the stuff that I'm writing is no good. It doesn't go away, and I'm kind of happy that it doesn't go away, because if it didn't go away, I'd be an ego maniacal dink. You know, that's sort of the bipolar, bipolar personality of I think most writers is, you know, some days you're like, my stuff is genius, and other days, like, I can't do anything. I should just put a paper bag over my head. You know, in most days, you know, you're somewhere in between, and you want to be somewhere in between. And

Dan Howarth 33:23
do you have any any kind of particular you know when you're reading other people's fiction, what are your kind of bug bears? What would you you know if you're advising somebody who is kind of new to writing, what would you advise them to stay clear of in terms of cliches or phrasing or anything like that, that you've picked up on for your writing experiences.

Paul Tremblay 33:45
Usually, I think the best advice I can give to any new writer is just to make sure you're reading all the time and reading, you know, as many different types of books as possible. You know, especially if it's fiction. You know, even if you're a hardcore horror fan, you should still, you have to read stuff from other genres as well. You know, it can only help you as a writer, I don't know. I feel hesitant at times to to, to give sort of, I guess, nuts and bolts writing tips, because, I mean, I feel like every sort of rule can be broken if it's broken well or done with purpose. But I guess at the same time, you have to, you know, you have to know what those rules are. I tend to be a little bit more minimalist, you know. So it means I kind of shy away from adverbs, but I've been doing that a little bit more recently. But I will say, I guess to me, the number one thing that annoys me is sort of adverb, tags in like dialog or dialog tags beyond like he said or asked or she said. I think those are kind of laughable and annoying.

Dan Howarth 34:53
Yeah, I'd say that's a one of the people that we asked this question and say that's that's up there, isn't it? Michael,

Michael David Wilson 34:58
well. I just think it's a kind of writer's 101 faux pas, isn't it? Really, yeah, like any story that I start reading and it and it presents dialog like that, I'm not going to finish reading. You know? It's just something that's easy to to iron out, particularly in the editorial process as well,

Paul Tremblay 35:27
right? Actually, I'll mention something that Nick mamatas has written about in one of his writing essays, and I think he collected it in his his book, shoot, starve better. Starve better as a collection of essays that Nick mamatas wrote about writing, and I believe, in one of those essays, he talks about how to begin a story. And a lot of beginning writers will make the mistake of not beginning the story where it's supposed to start, or where it, you know, where the action sort of kicks in. You know, they'll begin a story with somebody waking up, having a conversation or going into work, you know, and then the story sort of starts. So I think that's excellent advice that just popped into mind,

Michael David Wilson 36:08
yeah, well, I mean along those lines. I mean another tip that I've often heard quoted is, you know, you take your story right now, cut away the first 10% that's your starting point. You know, it's along those lines. So you know that you've really got into it. But, I mean, I guess, like in in the initial draft, if you really want to just to get a feel for character, you can kind of get your character going through the motions. But when you're submitting that final draft, or, you know, when you're submitting any draft to an editor or to a reader, you really don't want to start it with them waking up, as you say, well, like, oh, just make a cup of coffee. It's like, Oh, wow. That's riveting. Thank you for that. You know, unless the cup of coffee that they're making is laced with some sort of poison. And, yeah, okay, maybe my interest is piqued on some level at that point.

Dan Howarth 37:13
Michael, what are you talking about? You? Coffee is one of your absolute passions, isn't it? That's surely a cup of coffee at the start would grab your attention.

Michael David Wilson 37:22
Well, I mean, maybe if it's like organic whole bean produced, then,

Dan Howarth 37:29
oh, here we go. Now, the details involved, all of a sudden, you've taught yourself background.

Paul Tremblay 37:36
Well, Michael, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a horrific confession to you, but I do not like coffee. I don't drink coffee. I never have and never

Michael David Wilson 37:43
will, never will.

Paul Tremblay 37:47
It's do not like the taste of coffee, but I have become a tea drinker within the last sort of year, year and a half,

Michael David Wilson 37:52
okay, well, yeah, I'm quite passionate about tea as well. So

Paul Tremblay 37:57
in an effort, in an effort to become more adult when I eat and drink, I said, I'm going to start drinking tea. It's actually worked out. I tried to get his name keeps coming up. I humorously tried to get Stephen Graham Jones to do the same. We were at the LA Times Festival of Books last year, and there's nothing funnier than watching him try to swallow a mouthful of hot tea. He just couldn't do it.

Michael David Wilson 38:23
So what's your tea of choice? Then,

Paul Tremblay 38:29
you know, it's fine. I tend to like black teas, and I put honey in it, so I'll have a green tea as well. So I guess I'm not that far deep into it where I'm a sort of an expert on tea, but it's funny that I do tend to like the darker tea, and I don't put, like, cream or anything in it, but I do put a little dollop of honey.

Michael David Wilson 38:51
That sounds good. And in terms of green tea, at the moment, I'm in the right place. Being in Japan has, like, so many different types, and you can get the match your tea as well, which is like a caffeine explosion of energy, which I kind of need at the moment, because I'm, I'm like, doing some pretty late shifts. Yeah,

Paul Tremblay 39:15
I was fine before, before my I had a reading on Monday night at the Brookline booksmith, which is a really cool independent store in Boston, and that was sort of the release event. And I got there early, and there was a little tea coffee place next door. So I got a tea, and I usually don't have a tea that late in the day. And they put two bags in it, and it was just a, was like, I think it was an English breakfast tea, and it was good, but man, I felt, I felt the kick. I felt so jittery and twitchy up on up at the podium when I was reading, you know, on top of being just nervous in general. Anyway, yeah, having that tea kick was sort of noticeable as

Dan Howarth 39:55
well. About everybody in the audience was like, Wow, this guy's so intense looking and shaking with. Oh yeah. But the passion,

Paul Tremblay 40:03
I guess I was reading. I was reading sort of the scene where Marjorie threatens to take Mary's tongue out loud. And yeah, I was just about full on, like yelling at one point,

Michael David Wilson 40:19
the thing, if you're like, shaking and it's like a caffeine fix. I don't know if a reading it's kind of worse to admit that be like, no, no, don't worry. I'm not nervous. I'm just, I'm just addicted to caffeine,

Dan Howarth 40:33
just absolutely amped.

Paul Tremblay 40:37
I burnt my tongue bad too. You know, it took a big sip before, because I was in the middle of a conversation, wasn't thinking, and it took a sip. And so kind of, that's good burn the time before you read. Have that swell up all as well. I managed to get through it without any more damage. Why

Dan Howarth 40:56
didn't you tell us all this when we were talking about, you know, selling your your live show. This sounds really insane. Yeah,

Paul Tremblay 41:05
more self injury. Maybe that's what should be my stick for future readings,

Dan Howarth 41:11
adventures in caffeine. Yeah, it's awesome.

Michael David Wilson 41:13
Yeah, I'm glad to see that we've progressed to the real issues, the first world problems, the double key bag. So God, that sounds like now I've said that out loud, burning of tongues. I

Paul Tremblay 41:31
told you, it was a wild reading.

Dan Howarth 41:37
Definitely sounds that way. So

Michael David Wilson 41:39
are there any things that you would like to talk about that you're rarely asked in interviews about your work or about a head full of ghosts? So perhaps any questions that never come up that you're absolutely raring to discuss?

Paul Tremblay 42:00
Oh, geez, I don't know. Like, you know, I think with readers, hopefully it'll be fun just to interact about the other sort of movies that get referenced. And to me, I think those are fun conversations. I think it's always, you know, it's one of those icebreakers that you could do anywhere too. Like, if you're at a table with people, you could always say, What's the scariest movie you've ever seen? And even people who aren't necessarily horror fans, people will join that conversation. And it's always fun to hear things that have frightened people that weren't intentionally frightening. If that makes sense. You know, I can think of things that I saw as a kid that, you know, terrified me, but you know, they weren't part of a horror movie. It was like a Dunkin Donuts commercial or, you know, or something like that, or even like scenes in jeez, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. When they go into the, you know, Gene Wilder takes them into the tunnel, you know, here's this whimsical movie, but as a child, that was one of the most horrific scenes I'd ever seen in a movie. I don't know I could just something that, you know, anybody can be able to talk and communicate over so I'm sort of, I guess, looking forward to conversing with people about, you know, their favorite horror stories, or why they read horror, why they like to read horror. Because a lot of ways this book is, I feel like is my sort of love letter to horror. I've always wanted to write a horror novel. I finally, I finally did it.

Michael David Wilson 43:21
Yeah, I think I can go along with that. And as I said in the introduction, and as I've said to you previously, I mean, a head full of ghosts is my favorite horror. Well, my favorite novel of 2015 so far. Well, thank

Paul Tremblay 43:38
I mean, thank you. I mean, that's so kind of you say, and it's very humbling and awesome, and you can't see my big smile, but it's there,

Michael David Wilson 43:46
fantastic. So I've just got a few kind of quick fire questions. So are there any writers who intimidate you?

Paul Tremblay 44:02
I Are there any writers that intimidate me? Geez, I don't know. I mean, I feel like I used to be intimidated a lot more by them. But you know, just having had, having had the good fortune to go to conventions and meet so many writers that I admire, that I admire and enjoy, I feel like there's less of that, and you sort of realize, you know, they're just a regular person. You know that said, I don't know if I would say I'm intimidated by Peter Straub, but he definitely has this presence about him, and that's really the only way I can describe it, as a presence, and I enjoy talking to him when I get the chance to Okay.

Michael David Wilson 44:44
And what morning routines and rituals Do you have?

Paul Tremblay 44:52
They involve looking at my phone for too much, looking at Twitter and Facebook and all that stuff. Yeah. Into, I guess, a bowl of cereal. I would say 95% of my days start with a bowl of cereal, usually a child's cereal, like Frosted Flakes, which I had this morning, or at Corn Pops the other morning. I love cereal. I can't unless, unless I'm getting, like, a full eggs sort of breakfast. That's the only time I'll turn down a bowl of cereal.

Michael David Wilson 45:22
There you go. Then, for our listeners that are looking to to mimic the pool trembling morning Frosted Flakes and two more Facebook

Paul Tremblay 45:35
that's the secret to productive life, right there.

Michael David Wilson 45:40
So what other writers do you recommend our read, our readers, our listeners, check out, and I guess as a little caveat to make that a bit easier to answer, how about newer writers? So new, up and coming writers?

Paul Tremblay 46:02
Well, I'll start off with two. You know, we've already talked about steaming her and Jones, so I won't mention him again, but you know, two, you know, they are very close friends of mine, but they're also two of my favorite writers, John langen and Laird Baron. I guess they might not qualify as newer writers that people haven't heard of, but you know, in terms of the mainstream, hopefully they'll start getting their recognition much sooner, rather than later. The novella you guys published, Nathan ballengrood, is the visible filth. I just thought was fantastic novella. I loved it, and I love Nathan's work. His short story collection is amazing as well. Olivia Llewellyn engines of desire, her short story collection is fantastic. An author who's published by, you know, a major publisher, but I feel like doesn't get a lot of notice within the horror community, is Victor Lavalle. Victor Laval is two novels, big machine and the devil and silver are horror novels, in there. They're fantastic.

Michael David Wilson 47:02
Okay, well, that sounds like a good reading list for you know, people to check out if they haven't already, uh, Livia llewellyns engines of desires came up quite a number of times, actually, but I've, I've yet to check it out, so I really do need to

Paul Tremblay 47:21
get a copy for the plane ride.

Michael David Wilson 47:23
Okay, so you'll get some sort of angry message now, if I find that there's some, like, horrendous airplane, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 47:34
I don't think there is

Dan Howarth 47:37
something's got to keep you away from all those chick flicks that you can watch on the plane anyway. Michael, Great,

Michael David Wilson 47:46
all right, where can our listeners connect with you?

Paul Tremblay 47:51
Um, yeah. So Paul trembley.net, is sort of my blog slash website. I'm on Twitter at Paul G Trembley on Facebook as well my as Paul Trembley had set to private, but I pretty much accept any friendships. As long as you don't instantly spam me, I'll accept your friendship. So yeah, come on, hang out. Be happy to interact with you.

Michael David Wilson 48:17
Okay, fantastic. Dan, have you got any kind of final questions or thoughts not basketball related?

Dan Howarth 48:28
No, I'm good mate, don't you?

Michael David Wilson 48:29
Okay? Well, Paul, thank you for spending like, nearly two hours of your time talking with us. I mean, we really appreciate that, and I really do hope that a head full of ghosts gets the success that it deserves. Because, I mean, it's a phenomenal novel, and I'm really hoping that it's just going to, you know, become a really big hit for you.

Paul Tremblay 48:55
Well, thank you, Mike. I really appreciate it. Michael, Dan, and this was a lot of fun, please. Thanks for the support. And, you know, I really enjoyed chatting,

Dan Howarth 49:02
yeah, just thanks a lot for your time today, Paul. Really appreciate him. We've, uh, we've really enjoyed chatting to

Paul Tremblay 49:07
you. Yeah, thanks guys. Really appreciate it. Uh, anytime.

Michael David Wilson 49:17
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