Michael David Wilson 0:28
Welcome to This Is Horror, a podcast for readers, writers and creators. I'm Michael David Wilson, and every episode alongside my co host, Bob Pastorella. We chat with masters of horror, about writing, life lessons, creativity, and much more. And today's guest is Josh Malerman. We are wrapping up a huge three part conversation, as always listen to them in any order. So you can go back 359 360 For great insights into Josh's latest novel Malorie. We talk about returning to Bird Box, we talk about film and TV adaptations. But by all means, listen to this one first, and then go back when you're done. And what is on the agenda today with Josh, the New York Times best seller of books such as Bird Box and a house at the bottom of a lake. Well, let me tell you, we kick off talking about his interest in buying Fangoria. So how did that come about? How did it work out? Well, you're gonna find out. We also talk a little bit about his writing habits and the process. So what does writing look like for Josh Malerman and we talk about his production company with Ryan Lewis. And hey, get into a little bit more we have some bizarre Patreon questions, things like how many horror books can you balance on your head and who will play you in a biopic so all of that coming up? But before any of it? I just have a quick word from our sponsors.

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Luke Kondor 2:52
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Michael David Wilson 3:23
Okay, well, without sad here it is. It is the third and final part of the conversation with Josh Malerman. I wanted to ask you about a tweet that you put out a few weeks back now about the fact that you would be interested in buying Fangoria. So I'm wondering, is this like a legitimate interest? Is this something where you've actually made inquiries? Because I know that Fangoria are in some trouble at the moment, I mean, with their parent, company, sinner state and some accusations and some evidence that has come to light. So I think they may be looking for a new buyer. So is this something you're actively making inquiries about?

Josh Malerman 4:21
I did. I spoke to a member of the staff there now, you know, I'm after that tweet. And that conversation went well. And then I wrote, the owner, Dallas, I wrote him an email. I'm expressing my interest and we got on the phone and had like, you know, typically in my business, conversation conversations, Ryan Lewis is always present like like every single time, but this was just something I was just, I don't know, inspired to look into on my own and I talked to him on my own and it was a Good business discussion and I actually kind of learned a lot in that talk to be honest with you. And like, I gotta be honest with you. The what is up for sale is just like so incredible. I mean, it's Fangoria man, it's God. It's the whole thing. It's the magazine, the backlog the letters to Fangoria like, literally, like the whole history of hand Korea is like all included. And I mean, holy cow, right. And I got like the price from him. And I found out that there's there were 22 other people interested 20 other 22 other prospective buyers. I think it's something that I would I think it's something I would do really well, to be honest with you. I don't know why, but I think it is. But then I was talking to Ryan, and I was talking to Allison about it and it kind of came down to like, you don't want to play in the league and own a team. You don't want to like play in the NBA and on the team. You want to like you're you're playing right now in the league, you know, like, like, you don't want to own Fangoria. You want to be reviewed by Fangoria and you want to do interviews? And you know what I mean? Like? And I think that ultimately that they were right, it's like, your heart, your passion is writing books. Do you really want to like run a freakin magazine right now. Um, and I understand that you could be a somewhat silent owner and that other people could carry on and it would probably carry on without a hitch exactly as it is right now with just changing ownership hands, but I'm just not really that kind of guy. I'm not like a silent owner kind of guy. So I imagined that I would have, you know, by buying Fangoria, I think that I would have been devoting time to something that I don't think in the long run would have been wise right now. So I eventually wrote him. Thanks for the talk. I actually learned a lot in that talk. And but and I, I gave this the silly sports example to him too. And said, my, my passion lies in, in writing books. And I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay there. And he wrote back, totally understandable. Hope our paths crossed down the road. And that was it.

Michael David Wilson 7:16
Yeah, yeah.

Josh Malerman 7:17
But I looked into it. And there was a moment of like, you're gonna do this. You're gonna freakin buy Fangoria magazine, you know, like, I and I just, you know, if I, if I was the kind of guy like TE D Klein, where I was writing once every in a while, then I think I would have done it. Yeah, but yeah, I'm just that kind of guy though. So. So it was like, you know, no, but um, but I'm glad I looked into it.

Michael David Wilson 7:44
Yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. Because I've juggled a lot of different things too, like the publishing the podcasting, writing, editing, teaching. And I mean, this is why I always say you can do anything you want. But you can't do everything can if you're doing one thing like let's say run in Fangoria while is what is going to be taken away from time that you have for other pursuits. So you kind of have to prioritize and decide what is it that you want to be doing and focusing on right now. And of course, in in a different season of your life that might change. But yeah, I mean, if the writing is what you're most interested in now, and obviously, you've got the film production company to then perhaps taken on Fangoria is just not in terms of, of time going to going to work out. But I also relate in the sense that I get very, very excited about things and think, ah, yeah, this is a project that I definitely want to take on. And I do that in, in every facet of my life. I mean, even now that I'm teaching, it's like, Oh, I could look at like some promotional opportunities and go into to management or a more supervisory role. And it's like, Whoa, hang on a fucking minute because literally, you've spent the last few years of your life just doing self employed work, you'll find a struggle to be doing this full time but with generous holiday, if you take a senior role then you can kiss by that that free time so basically, slow down but I just think one of my problems is everything I do, I want to do it to the best of my ability. And I mean, T T T and as the example that is just meant to be a job for me, that is a way to get me a little bit more money. It makes the visa to be in Japan a lot easier. So it's like just just be a regular To teach Yeah. Because if I then get a senior role, it's like, well, well done. Now you've taken away the time that you had for the writing and the podcasting, which was what it was all about. Anyway. So yeah, I relate to everything you're saying.

Josh Malerman 10:18
Yeah, it's like Alison and I already have full days and even lunch with a friend means and that's, that's wonderful. I want to have that all the time. But lunch with a friend means one of those other things you normally do in the day, Josh is not going to get done. It's just not. So. Now imagine throwing in an magazine and not just a magazine. But like Fangoria like one of like, the, like, the Hallmark legends of horror magazine, right? No. So it was like, Man anyway, and, you know, it's obviously something like that as a lot of money. And I believe I could have made it happen. Um, but it? i Yeah, it's exactly what you're saying that once you take on a project, you want to do it right. And you want to, and I just foresaw this, like, moment of like, a year down the road of like, oh, shit, man. That's the least I've written in a year, you know, like, in in ever? Yeah. And that was sort of like the final and Ryan and Alison are the ones that like, pointed that out to me. They're like, this is sounds really fun and amazing. But you love writing books, dude. It was like, you know, like, that's gonna get in the way of that. Okay. Oh, yeah, you're right. You're right. Okay, fine.

Michael David Wilson 11:35
Yeah.

Bob Pastorella 11:37
The I guess what's what's good is there's like, 20 something other people. Yeah, yeah. rested. So there's a huge possibility that that thing Gloria will continue. Yes. But you know, that's, hopefully that's that's a hopeful, you know, yeah.

Josh Malerman 11:57
I do think that I'm the only lunatic author that called.

Michael David Wilson 12:03
Yeah.

Josh Malerman 12:08
I don't know that for sure. But yeah, feeling that the rest were probably probably business. Men and women. And I, you know, I'm a little nervous for that call, guys. You know, because, again, Ryan's always there with me. And I'm just like a weirdo in my office, you know, and then like, and I'm like, All right, we're gonna talk business now. I wrote Oh, that's those sound. Those numbers sound reasonable, you know? Yeah. And I discovered that, oh, it was actually a very fluid, human. informative conversation. I walked away from it feeling like, I'm glad I checked into it. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 12:45
it's a good job. Since you didn't have Ryan that you didn't walk away and ring up Ray, and then you're late. So the conversation went, well. I now own Fangoria. You didn't just like, take it to that level. Now, that kind of bought it off the back of that phone call.

Josh Malerman 13:05
Hey, Ryan, I mortgaged mine and your homes. We own a magazine now. But don't worry, Freddie fat fingers said he's a fan of mine. Like dude. Like, we're gonna be great, man. Don't worry that the mafia is involved.

Michael David Wilson 13:29
But I even understood your example, when you were talking about, you know, if you have lunch with a friend that's practically a day out the window. And that's something that I find as a creative that can be tricky to balance because of course, you not only want a social life, but it's going to be important for your mental health. I mean, we are social creatures and social beings. But I also have to be disciplined if I want to get all these creative projects done, especially now that I'm teaching again. So I mean, an example would be this weekend, I was kind of invited to do something for for the entire day. And I was very tempted, but I said, Well, rather than have like a kind of whole day event, why don't we just kept you up over coffee because that, that feels at that the time that it is now more more proportionate in terms of the time that I can spare if I want to get all these things done, and, and I do and I want to get people rich, you're sent to the editor, which we're very, very close to doing now. And then I want to send it to Ryan. So let's see if we can have more interest in interning more of my work and now Bob's work into a movie. But let's jump into some some Patreon questions. So it's a varying in seriousness because we have people like Rena Mason, but also we have people like Max spoof asking questions. So let's jump in with one from my co sellers. And he says, I'd love to hear a little about your process and writing habits. I mean, I imagine over the years and conversations that we've covered a hell of a lot of that I know, we've covered quite a bit in this conversation, but anything else that you'd like to divulge or talk about?

Josh Malerman 15:37
You know, I'm discovering that they vary per project, right? And how you were just talking about discipline, right? Well, now you can see the beauty of, well, you could anyway, probably, but you can understand the beauty of carpenters farm and locking yourself into you have to write this every day, because you said you would write, I'm unseeing, sort of like patterns like certain like that, that alien book. Um, I want to write that one at night. Why I don't know I want the darkness outside. I want the stars out when I work on that. Um, but what that means is when I say that is that I'll probably do like two to 3000 words a day, for the duration from every day, except maybe one or two days off, maybe until that rough draft is done. And then it'll happen typically around the same time at night. Other books like Bird Box, for some reason, started at eight in the morning and went till noon every day. And that was without a break for 26 days. Malorie was, I think also morning. Um, so it's not like there's a specific time of day, but her book there is. And I think that that's, I think that's what's the right word, healthy fun for like an artist to like, it doesn't have to be eight to noon every day. You can, you could try like a 2am novel. Let's see what comes out of that. You could try. I had read or spoken to Paul Tremblay that he wrote like 500 words a day or something like that. And I'm like, more of like, Bird Box was 4300 I'm very careful was 5300 a day. And, and I was like, You know what, I'm gonna write a book. Like with Paul's method, I'm gonna do it. And I hung out with him at a convention and told them about this in LA and everything. I was like, I'm gonna try your way on one. Let's just see what happens. And it was grueling. Like, to only do 500 a day, and I had to stop, you know, not in mid sentence, right? But I had to stop and walk away. And only your I was only allowed 500 a day. It was freakin grueling. And it's probably the messiest freakin book I've ever written. So you would think that, you know, that process would slow you down and, and make me really careful. And I'm sure that does work for Paul obviously, it does. But for me, it felt like I was like, like, my dogs, like, like, like, begging to be led outside the whole time, you know? But I did do it. And then there was another one. I wrote a huge one and 1100 Pager 300,000 words, God, what a number what a gorgeous writing number 300,000 words. And with that one, I only allowed myself 1000 a day because I understood I was running a marathon like to come out at four or 5k a day, you're gonna run out of gas, you know, and then you may not finish the book. But something like 1000 a day for me was a good middle ground, you know, you're still getting something done. You have time. It's not as much time as you normally would spend. But you will probably be able to maintain this for 300 days. And I did. So it's it's been project by project. The next one, I assume will be because I had seen a post by Lansdale, and I think we talked about this last time we talked that he said that he has one working draft the whole time. And I made I was very intentional with the second version of Malorie and Carpenter's Farm. Also in that wrote a chapter rewrote it, wrote the next one, rewrote it and then read kind of up to there, you know, then you know, so you're constantly in rhythm with the story. You're editing as you go. You you're not you know, when you I've written rough drafts where like a character suddenly springs up halfway, and I'm like, Who the hell is Steve, you know? Moving so fucking fast and not even paying attention. And then like or like names change halfway. Totally. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like what the what? And and then so, do think that Lansdale method is like working for me because I think Malorie and carpenters farmers out well, so I'm going to try to stick to the Lansdale method for that next, for the next one, I assume that if it's alien one that would be at night anyway, it would be like, yeah, like two to three a day until it's done the rewrite process. I mean, I don't even know, I'm one of those guys who like, I took that word like, oh, I dread it, you know, because I'm all feel man. I'm all feel like I like I like to jam and I like to like, let's roll, let's roll. And rewrite is so focused. But I also understand that that's where the real that's where the real good shit comes in. I get it. So, but there's no like, I don't like, you know, I rewrite 10 pages a day, or I rewrite for four hours. It's not like that. It's the rewrites are more like, whatever I can get done today. And then whenever I can get done tomorrow, and but also every day until it's done. So to answer that question, I think it varies, but the one constant is work on it every day until that phase of the project is done is how I do it.

Michael David Wilson 21:19
Yeah. Yeah.

Bob Pastorella 21:22
I had to think that 500 words a day, at 500 words a day, like Paul does. And everybody's different, but I have a feeling for you, you could reach that Zen moment. That Z you know what I'm talking about? Because you're I mean, you write the same way. I love the creative process. It's the rewriting, which you're you're just taking your polishing at that point. But that creative that creation moment. I gotta have it it's

Josh Malerman 21:54
a trance man like I dance with horror stories. You know, I dance with into horror stories in this office. There's an invisible drummer in this office. It's so glorious soundtracks playing this and that. And that Paul method, I can tell in his books, how deliberate and focused he is, and it's freaking brilliant. It did not work for me, man. But then I told him I'm like, now you got to do it at 4000 a day and he's like, screw you No, I don't know. I don't know what I did say that. So but I don't remember what he said. Yeah.

Michael David Wilson 22:34
Yeah, but this is why we always say we've writing advice you know, your mileage may vary. And that's it it's writing advice you take what works you discard what doesn't you add once you uniquely your own as Bruce Lee said.

Josh Malerman 22:52
You know that Lansdale thing was just a post on Facebook and like, and again I you know, we're always talking about how dismal Twitter and Facebook are. And my God can't they be right but but another just like carpenters farm and, and the communal sort of art that happened on that one that I just saw a Lansdale post that maybe has changed my writing life. Like, that's cool. And I haven't met Joe Lansdale yet. Um, oh, my God, I would love to and I'd love to hang out with him and drink and talk about this stuff. But he's one of my favorite online. There's just a real kinda like, how he writes a real straight just like this is how it is. And this is what I saw. I do it and you just you just trust him. I don't know what it is. You just trust that dude. And, and I saw that post and I was like, You know what, I'm gonna try a book like you. I'm gonna try the book the way you do it, and it works. And so yeah, yeah, there's that.

Michael David Wilson 23:56
Yeah, I'd love to see a Lansdale Short Story adapted into a film via your production company. I think that would be a wonderful collaboration.

Josh Malerman 24:07
Oh man. Yeah, you're right I saw I read by bizarre hands which was amazing. Um, do you have another Lansdale like collection in mind that I should that Ryan and I should check out right away

Michael David Wilson 24:21
There's so many.

Bob Pastorella 24:27
Probably the go to one is in there's probably some overlap would be you know, just is collected short stories. And I can't think I don't think it has an actual name I think fancy

Josh Malerman 24:41
title or sign Okay, right. I'll check it out. Oh,

Bob Pastorella 24:44
well, it's got Godzilla is 12 STEP program in there, which is fucking hilarious. And I'm

Michael David Wilson 24:52
just trying to find the collection with the night they missed the horror show.

I feel like you can't go wrong. Like I haven't picked up a collection by Lansdale, that was a dud. So just put it on random.

Josh Malerman 25:16
You know, he's an interesting guy too, because he's also had like, not only like, you know, like, he's had big movies made from his stuff and like, like beloved like adaptations and, and he I, he I saw him post something about like a lot of his, like The Bottoms I know was was like near to getting started or something right. And I don't know when now and but I mean all it takes is me writing the dude right i mean that's how this life works right if I if Ryan and I are interested in in Joe I should freaking just write him and tell him so and take it from there. And so maybe this conversation will make that happen hopefully.

Michael David Wilson 25:53
Yeah, I

Bob Pastorella 25:54
was

Michael David Wilson 25:56
I did selfishly hope that in in implanting that idea that a conversation I Okay, so yeah, I'm all for it.

Bob Pastorella 26:07
Now, I think what the bottoms that, that Bill Paxton was involved with that before he passed away. And Joe and Bill were really, really close. And I think that that project in that particular iteration of that project died with that. But I think the thicket is still in the works. Peter Dinklage

Josh Malerman 26:35
and yeah, which the Hap and Leonard show and yeah, Joe is amazing, dear good man. He is. He's good. All right. So let's, okay,

Michael David Wilson 26:48
so another Patreon question. Lucas mill ion says, are you still playing music?

Josh Malerman 26:59
Yeah, but that's been really hard. Um, in terms of the lockdown, like, we were talking about, like practicing together online with Ethernet and all that stuff. But it's like, we were in the midst of recording pretty much two albums. One, we had all the music down for and we were starting to sing. And the other one was, I don't I don't even know what the difference between the two albums really are, except one is being produced by the bass player and what is being produced by the guitar player, Steven. So Chad, and Steven, and then, um, and then the lifetime happen. And we haven't know Not much has happened in 100 days, but we write each other because we're all like best friends and have been best friends since we were like, kids, you know? So we're all on like, a thread together. And, and we all every day, we're like, Ah, I want to be recording, you know, because we were like, right there. We were Doobly. We're laying vocals down and stuff. And so the answer is yes. But the lockdown is, as it's put a monkey wrench into that, but okay, we'll get to it when we get to the other side of this.

Michael David Wilson 28:03
Yeah. Well, it's been interesting to see how different musicians have handled the lockdown. And I mean, we've seen some artists like Devin Townsend and left press and Post Malone put on effectively, like live gigs from from their homes. And we also saw Metallica do a zoom Cole and do a acoustic or or a Garriage version of blackened, so is it again, it's like forcing people to be more creative and to experiment with new ideas. And I mean, I think as well, we'll see, within the fiction community, I think we will see more live zoom events to launch books. I mean, it's a great idea. Video and Audio are great mediums. So why not? I think this forced creativity will mean that that there are good things and good things that stick around.

Josh Malerman 29:10
Hey, don't forget, like, all those theatrical readings that I've been talking about us doing for years. The only people that see that are the people that are in the room. Yeah. So like you're saying, like, instead of me feeling like, Ah, this was canceled. I should be like, dude, all right. Oh, instead, you can literally put on a show for the whole horror scene. I mean, if anyone watched or cared, you know what I'm saying? Like you can like do that. Like, let's roll. Let's do it. So, yeah, it really is. It goes back to the very first thing you were talking about, you know, perspective and am I going to be progressive about this scenario, or am I going to be like, fuck, and just like, you know, pout for for a month? Yeah.

Michael David Wilson 29:53
And like you said, as well. I mean, just because you can't do the Detroit zoo and The train event now it doesn't mean that you never can. So you get to do a cool online launch event now, and you get to do what was originally planned later. You get both. You've won.

Josh Malerman 30:16
Yep, totally agree. Totally, totally, totally agree.

Michael David Wilson 30:21
We're talking of online events, sia Maeve would like to know, did Jonathan Janz's performance at Corona con when him the job to narrate the audio book from Malorie?

Josh Malerman 30:36
Oh my god, did you guys see that Bob? You saw it right. Bob?

Michael David Wilson 30:40
Or no? Oh, yeah.

Bob Pastorella 30:46
Did you Oh, I didn't realize that. There. Got some extraneous noise outside. Tom had my mic muted. The selector people outside there shouldn't be many way apartment life. But yes, yes, it did catch that. And

Josh Malerman 31:03
it was just like, such a shock to like, knock, knock. I mean, I don't know why. But it just was like, I just didn't know that about it like that. He's really, really good at reading his freaking books. Like, he did all like the character voices and that hashing in their voices. And it was like, you can see in the comment section all of us getting like, like, at first, it's like, whoa, hey, whoa, damn, this is good. And by the end, it's like Bravo. You know? And, and to answer that question, how Yes, I would want Jonathan Jan's to read one of these books. Malorie. No, because Malorie is being read already by Cassandra Campbell, who did Bird Box and I love that she's doing this book. Also, I love that it's the same narrator. Why what? A different book with John. Yeah, man, I would for sure. Love that.

Michael David Wilson 31:56
All right. Now, I guess we've probably covered Rena Mason's question. But she said, will there be a malaman production company in the near future? And I feel we've covered that with spin a black yarn with Ryan Lewis.

Josh Malerman 32:16
It is a great, it's okay. It's a good question, though. To still because Ryan and I talked about this like, and when we talk to people, maybe Ryan spoke to you this way to like, we're just like, Bird Box was a gigantic hit. But we were and we obviously we were involved, but that wasn't our production company. Right. So in some ways, like, Ryan and I are just like, starting this, you know, like Bird Box, the movie came out? Like, I mean, almost, you know, it came out at the very end of nine of 18. So like, it was really gained steam in January of 19. I mean, it wasn't that long ago when this happened, right? So, Ryan and I are like, still, like, trying to make things happen. And when when he when we talk to, um, you know, writers like you and, and Max and everyone, we kind of like Tom, like, you know, we don't, you know, we haven't heard anything major off yet ourselves. But like, we're trying. And we're, and we're getting, you know, we got on traction on numerous things. So, so, in a sense to answering this question, like, who, by the way, I love Rena Mason, and hello to her. Um, like, there's like to answer a question like, yes, it exists. But the real question becomes, like, are, you know, are, you know, when? How do you explain that? Like, are you guys gonna be making movies? Well, we're trying, right, we're trying and, and we really are, and we're trying to do it in the right way, where it's writer creator first, and is involved in as many steps as they can be along the way. Um, more so than what is traditional. Like, I didn't mind at all my scant involvement in Bird Box, the movie, but at the same time, like, I think it's kind of awesome, then I'm talking regularly about black man, we'll with the producers, it's fun. It's great. So, so, um, we pretty much have been trying to take that, that that platform that it's Ryan I and like, and you let's say right, like we're like, if somebody you know, it's serious and you're on the videos option we want you came and I to be involved every step of the way. That doesn't mean that I'm, you know, what's the right word? That doesn't mean we have to breathe down a screenwriters neck the whole time. It just means just like checking in and having conversation being a part of it, you know, being a part of the process or something. So to live literally, technically, yes, Rena, we have started and but we haven't got where we want it to be yet but we are just starting out and it And we're busting our asses on it. So yes, yeah.

Michael David Wilson 35:02
We're all very excited about it. And we're also excited that we're here in Reno Mason in a couple of months. So that's gonna be a cool podcast conversation we've got coming up where we're doing one in August.

Josh Malerman 35:17
I want to hear that one because like, yeah, she's just like, she's been so involved in not just the writing side, but the organization side. And, like the horror community side, you know, I would love to, to hear that that one when you guys do.

Michael David Wilson 35:32
Awesome. We've got a number of questions from Patrick McDonough. And apologies, Patrick, if I'm mispronouncing your surname as that's the first time I've tried to say it aloud. Some of these are bizarre questions. First one, how many horror books can you balance on your head? Do you have any idea why he's asking?

Josh Malerman 36:03
Okay, I love that fucking question. I, and because I'm literally looking at a giant stack of them. And I think 567 and 11 I want to do the whole stack. I think I think I'm gonna say, Dude, and I'm gonna try to prove this with a photo eventually. I'm gonna, I'm gonna say 2020

Michael David Wilson 36:26
There you go, Patrick.

Bob Pastorella 36:29
He used the ceremonies as the anchor? Probably.

Josh Malerman 36:33
Yeah, right. It's all about pyramid

Michael David Wilson 36:36
20 books. And if, if you manage to do that, and and get the photo, then send it to me. It might even be the main photo for this episode. So

Josh Malerman 36:49
All I need is one second and Allison's gonna capture it. You know, that's all I need. Yeah, I'm gonna give it a whirl. I can also cheat and use this one top head I have that has a flat surface on top, but I don't think that's what he means. And I just, I met hattrick recently, and he's, uh, I love him online. That sounds like a funny thing to say I love him online, you know, as if you don't otherwise, but I only know him online. Um, and I met him recently. So hello, Patrick.

Michael David Wilson 37:20
Yeah, how did you meet him?

Josh Malerman 37:24
What did he he tweeted? Something that I thought was really cool. And then somehow we started talking about the house of the head on in like, personal messages. And then now we're Facebook friends, too. He's just, he just he's just like a positive force online. Um, and I look for that, you know, in in tweeters for that word. Um, I look for that. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm just as fired up and enraged out about this, you know, government and presidency as the next guy. And so I look for people online who are like being more just I don't know, you know, positivity, whatever. And he, he's got that.

Michael David Wilson 38:09
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you there. And I mean, Patrick, someone, I think it was even there. So late last year that I started speaking to you. And I know, he's recently started his own podcast as well. And he seems to be a really big champion for the genre. And the other guy who's really championing the genre, who, who seemingly came out of nowhere is Glen Parker, with his podcast. Does the dog die in there? So those two people

Josh Malerman 38:44
I knew who you were gonna say, I even knew who you were gonna say like, because it does seem like came out of nowhere and totally with like the right spirit, right?

Michael David Wilson 38:53
Yeah. Yeah, so there's two positive dudes who people should seek out particularly if you want more conversations like this can save it here. They've both got their their podcasts and they've both genuinely decent people. And that's what we want more of. Yeah. Patrick also wants to know when they make a biopic about you, who will play you and who will play a Sandra Bullock?

Josh Malerman 39:26
Um, I am you could definitely use this photo. I want Alison to play me. And I

Michael David Wilson 39:33
have seen I've seen the photo convincing.

Josh Malerman 39:39
Yeah, either Alison. Or like, super like hot Jewish dude. Like, like some like, like, outrageous where everyone's like, that's not what Josh look. Yeah. And he's super smooth and like, there's like, it starts with him like jogging at the beginning. And he stops and he's like, I've got to go Reid idea for a book, and then he jogs home and like the dogs meet him and he's like, eat this, like, you know, this shake and everything's so bright and wonderful. And I want everyone to be like, no, no, no, that's not him. That movie sucked. But I think that if Alison, I think you've Allison did it, it would be perfect man. And then I think she Yeah, she would do it perfectly. And, and she's 10 years younger than me so. So maybe that's something more of it. Like if I die, and then she reaches that age or something. I don't know. Whatever. Um, but Alison, as me and I will send that photo. And Sandra Bullock, I think she should play herself.

Michael David Wilson 40:45
See, so this conversation will be going out in two or two or three parts, probably three parts at this point. And of course, we can't have the cover picture. Both Alison as you and you balancing books on your head, but I'm thinking it would be really funny and weird. If through either the first or the second part. We have a picture of Alison as you in the cover photo and we don't even acknowledge yet we just wait to see you come and like

Josh Malerman 41:25
a bunch of them. There's the one that I posted of her like trying to kiss me, but there's like a whole series. There's like 30 photos from Alison, do you want to just her? Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 41:35
I think that'd be pretty funny to see. Like, wait a minute. Is that Josh's especially cuz I take it grayscale so it obscures it a little bit?

Josh Malerman 41:48
Oh, my God. Everyone's gonna be like Malorie lost some weight. Yeah.

I never noticed that. Malorie that's pretty eyes.

Michael David Wilson 42:00
Yeah. Yeah, I'm finding myself attracted to malaman in ways that I never knew were possible. But I liked that feeling. But I don't want it to stop.

Now, that at some point, someone might take that audio bite and mix it into something to take me out of context, just talking about how attracted I am to you well, or whatever, you can do that. Well, finally, Patrick wants to know what your go to snack is. And then he says, Is it cheese and crackers? I think it's keys and crackers. What kind of keys so that's very presumptuous and confident Patrick. So what is your go to snack?

Josh Malerman 42:56
Man, I I don't I don't know. We have like a snack or sign? A snack. Something that sounds like the weirdest thing in the world to have a snack? Like what is that? Like? Like, what's more than what do you have a snack? Like what's your go to snack?

Michael David Wilson 43:18
My snack? You know, like, I tried to make a point of VI in regular meals, you know, so that I don't have to snack in between so I'm probably the worst person to ask you about go to snack.

Josh Malerman 43:33
Like I don't really love chips so much. I'm not I don't really have a sweet tooth. Alison tells me I'm sort of like a bland eater. I don't really I don't put salt and pepper on shit. I love food to me has always been fuel. Yeah. And he's like, Okay, we got this piece of bread and some marinara sauce. I don't. I'm done. That's right. Let's roll it out. You know? But, um, yeah, yeah, Patrick, I will tell you this. I probably eat too many eggs. But that's a weird snack though. To just eat eggs. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 44:03
I suppose the nearest thing that I have to snack is I do quite like very dark chocolate. But we're talking over 80% cacao preferably 90%. So that's about as near as it gets to a snack. If

Josh Malerman 44:21
there was a bunch of cookies around the house, I'd eat them, you know, but I don't really? Yeah, sorry, Patrick. I get kind of a letdown on that one. I don't really have a snack. Yeah.

Bob Pastorella 44:32
I love cookies. Yeah,

Josh Malerman 44:35
well, yeah. I wish I really wish I had some cookies all of a sudden, man. Yeah. Yep.

Michael David Wilson 44:48
All right. Do you have any final thoughts?

Josh Malerman 44:53
I do. I do. Um, thank you everyone for listening. And I hope Malorie thrills everyone. And Bob. Thank you again for tweeting about it and what you've said tonight about it. And I'm, I love you guys, and I love being on the show. And I can't wait to read your book that you wrote. And I just went over, we're on lockdown. I'm like, as, as we started with what Michael said at the very beginning, there is a way to, to let it be horrible and positive at the same time in our own daily lives of writing. And I love the horror scene. And, and just thanks for everything. And and I hope that I hope this podcast was informative. I know it was heavy at times. And I hope that it was weird at the end, because there's no done. And that and that's it. I just wanted to sign off with sort of a positive like, we'll get through this thing. And I love being a part of this whole scene. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 45:52
we love you too, man. And this has been a hell of a lot of fun. This has been amazing. And we look forward to doing it again sometime. Yes.

Thank you so much for listening to This Is Horror Podcast. Join us again next time for a very special This Is Horror awards that pisode Yeah, that is right, we are going to be announcing the winners to the This Is Horror Awards. In an episode, we've got conversations with most of the winners of the This Is Horror awards, little segments. So look forward to that. And if you want to find out who's won ahead of the crowd, and you want to listen to that episode ahead of the crowd, then the only way to do so is to become a patron@patreon.com forward slash This Is Horror. When you do that, not only you get an access to each and every episode ahead of the crowd, but you get to submit questions to each and every guest. People like Chuck Paula, Nick, Adam Caesar, and Jeff strand. And yeah, that's right. Chuck poor linic. We are going to be chatting with him in about two weeks time. And this is monumental because when I started, This Is Horror. I wrote a bucket list of who will be my dream guests if I could get anyone on the show. And the top three writers that I would love to chat with a Stephen King. Chuck Paula, Nick, and Haruki Murakami. So this dream is becoming a reality and when I got an email from CAC, confirming that he was going to be on the show, I mean, I was shaking with adrenaline and with excitement. So wow, what a moment that's going to be for me personally. I if you want to submit a question to check you can become a patron of This Is Horror Podcast. from as little as $1 You get to submit a question to Chuck Palahniuk. Maybe it's a good time to remind you that if you want to advertise under This Is Horror Podcast, reached out to me as well. Michael at this is horror.co.uk. And if you liked the show, but you don't want to become a patreon, you don't want to advertise but you do want to support us in some way. So leave us a review over on Apple podcasts. We always appreciate them. They're a good way to let people know that you're enjoying the show. And they help us in terms of our visibility on Apple podcasts. Okay, before I wrap up a quick word from our sponsors. You

Luke Kondor 49:03
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Michael David Wilson 50:04
So last time I wrapped up with a haiku. Nobody has mentioned that or called me out on it. I don't know Do people get called out for ending an episode with a haiku? Oh, motherfucker, what you do and you can't? Yeah, well, I can. It happened. Now today rather than ending with a haiku. I'm going to end with a poem. And I put a call out on Twitter at Wilson, the writer, asking people to recommend some of their favorite poetry to me. And VR wherever recommended a number of poems by us are vague. And apologies if I mispronounce that name. And these are so visceral and there's a lot going on, particularly in the guinea pig cave, which I'd like to read today. Now, I certainly recommend that you do Google that it's available freely at free aim magazine.com Because there's an awful lot going on in this poem that you're probably not going to catch the first time round but this is fantastic. So here it is. In the guinea pig cave, buy us a big there lay the guinea pigs. There lay the guinea pigs and they waited with blood around their mouths like my sister. There lay the guinea pigs and they smelled bad in the cave. There lay my sister and she's swelled and ate and frogged their lay the guinea pigs and they ate all over and their legs stuck straight up like beetles and they looked depraved and what blew under their eyes as from months of debauchery. My sister puke calmly and it differently. It ran slowly out of her slack mouth without her moving a single nerve. And a cave was warm as teats and full of autumn leaves and beneath the soil, laid the arm of a mannequin. They are lay the guinea pigs and ate and were made of dough. There lay the guinea pigs beside the knives that would slice them up like loaves and my sister with lips of blueberries, soil and mush in the distance, the siren bleated inhumanly. That is where the guinea pigs lay and waited with blood around their mouths and contorted bodies. They waited and I was tired in my whole stomach from meat dough and guinea pig low fun I knew that they would revenge on me. And that was in the guinea pig cave. I'll see you in the next podcast for the This Is Horror award show. But until then, take care yourselves be good to one another. Read horror. Keep on writing and have a great, great day.