This is the transcript for the video version. Add around three minutes and thirty seconds to the timestamps for this audio version.

00:00.00

Michael David Wilson

So you were saying before that you've had difficult he sleeping recently and you've kind of been getting up at free or four a M and there's been like a lot of worries and stress is this all related to the book store opening or were other things going on.

00:22.41

Brian Keene

I mean there's there's other things going on my my grandmother turns 99 this year still lives by herself way back in the mountains of West Virginia will not let us put her in a home and um. Quite frankly, she doesn't need to be in a home. She's heartier than 3 of us are um, you know my parents are are aging um I served with 32 guys on board my ship my department had 32 guys. Ah, there are 5 of us left.

00:58.19

Brian Keene

We're all in our fifties We should not be dying like this and yet we are um, but mostly yes, mostly it's it's the store. It's trying to balance writing obligations and getting this store set up. And being a father and being a husband. Um and I I keep reminding myself. It will not always be this way. Once you get the store up and running it's running. Um, and in fact I hope to actually open for business a week from today. So um, you know I I can see the. The end of the rainbow up ahead. Ah, but yeah, you know it's it's It's been a. It's been a rough couple of months as far as overextending myself.

01:46.48

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, yeah, well we sincerely hope that once the store is open that you do get more sleep and.

01:56.67

Brian Keene

Well I Not only that I I I want more writing time. Um the novel I'm working on now primarily ah falling Angels It's the fourth book in the labyrinth series so far might be my favorite thing I've ever written.

02:13.78

Brian Keene

I am so excited when I work on it and it's rare for me that I see an entire novel in my head I'm I'm a pantser you know I make it up as I go along. We talked about that last time I was on the show this novel I see the entire thing in my head and it just I just want to get it out on paper and. I can't because I can only work on it about a half an hour day and then I got to come set up the bookstore. Um, so I'll I'll be very excited here in another week or two when I can get back to to writing again as well.

02:44.60

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, yeah, and that now you've done once again, the kind of cues your path where I've got to decide are we go down the labyrinth for we talking more about the bookstore I think we're gonna jump in.

02:59.44

Michael David Wilson

The labyrinth we'll probably jump back to the bookstore later. That's how we do these conversations but I mean this is such a unique series I mean first of all, it's 1 of the few books that I know which actually opens with a note.

03:16.82

Michael David Wilson

Essentially discouraging certain readers from reading or even buying the book in the first place because you want people to be familiar with your back catalog I mean. There are people like lovecraft who they had a miphos but this takes it to another level where you are referencing like entire books and previous snas.

03:37.70

Brian Keene

Right? I mean it's yeah, it's like it's like going to see return of the jedi without ever seeing star wars or empire or perhaps more more accurately. It's like seeing Avengers end game without ever having seen another mcu movie.

03:53.97

Michael David Wilson

Yeah.

03:56.28

Brian Keene

I think it's only fair that readers know that going in. Um I do try my absolute best to make it accessible to new readers. You know I'll give backstory and fill in details in the narrative. But what I won't do is let that slow the plot down. Um, so you know I try to balance it I I do think that if you're a brand new reader. You've never read a Brian Kean book you can pick up the first book in the labyrinth series the 7 and you can read it as a novel and I think you'll be entertained and I think you'll understand what's going on. But if you are familiar with my backlist then you're going to have a deeper enjoyment and a deeper understanding.

04:43.92

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, yeah, and I think I think that's definitely accurate and I mean you you do essentially summarize entire novels. In less than a paragraph to keep people up to speed. It's like you'll introduce the character and it's like right? This is what's gone on before but you know you you do it seamlessly. It doesn't detract. It doesn't feel like well hang on I'm being jolted out of the story and. I have to say too I mean it has one of my favorite characters in in the keen universe introduced and that's your interpretation of Lucifer and the humor involved is just yeah, it's so.

05:26.73

Brian Keene

Um, ah.

05:30.77

Michael David Wilson

Perfect 1 of my favorite Portra of Lucifer.

05:34.86

Brian Keene

He's ah he's going to play a big role in ah in book 4 the one I'm working on now. Yeah 90% of that novel is just ah Lucifer and the character of Frankie from the rising series. Ah so yeah I i enjoy him as well. Um I like to think you Mary if if you ever have Mary on as a guest she will tell you that the character of Tony Genova is is indeed my mary sue and and I'll admit that um, you know.

06:09.47

Brian Keene

When I'm writing about Tony I'm pretty much writing about myself unfiltered, um, but I like to think that my fictional version of Lucifer has some aspects of me if I had had an education beyond high school and ah if I wore better clothes. Was a little more refined.

06:30.34

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, and I I suppose for anyone who's listening who isn't familiar with the labyrinth series. Could you just give us the brief elevator pitch.

06:44.67

Brian Keene

Sure? Um I won't even give you the elevator but I will keep the answer brief I grew up on Marvel comics in the 1970 s where everything was connected. Um, they all took place in a shared universe and. You know as a teenager Stephen King's works were all taking place in the shared universe. So I knew from day one that everything I wrote was going to take place in the shared universe and that universe is is connected by something called the labyrinth mythos which is basically just a. Fictionalized version of quantum theory and quantum mechanics and string theory for the layman. Um, and ah with this series I'm I'm tying all these. These loose threads from all my various novels and stories together. There's this giant. Not even apocalyptic threat. It's it's a a reality ending threat ah and a a small band of characters I don't want to call them heroes because they're not all heroes but a small band of characters are. Basically the only things that can stop it. it's it's Stephen King's dark tower series but it's it's also probably more aptly marvel superhero secret wars.

08:05.61

Michael David Wilson

And yeah I've seen a lot of comparisons to the avengers as well I mean it seems like you know of every other review of of the 7 mentions, the avengers.

08:22.30

Brian Keene

Why even I even touch on that in the the second novel submerged when ah when Tony and teddy are on the roof and the tsunami is hit and you know Tony says he says.

08:33.12

Brian Keene

This isn't some superhero movie where we're all going to stand back to back and the music's going to swell and we're going to try. Ah so.

08:36.66

Michael David Wilson

Um, yeah, yeah and I wonder too because I mean you originalianly published this online via Patreon over a number of years obviously. This is what you're doing with falling angels as well. I'm wondering how that influenced and affected both the creative process to be doing it essentially live with the reader and then how that has affected things monetarily and a way that you perhaps approach writing novels and writing books from a kind of financial and a marketing perspective.

09:23.73

Brian Keene

Well I mean it's you know what? let's actually talk numbers. Um, my patron is you pay $5 a month and for that $5 a month you get content every single day. Ah, it may be a. Serialized chapter of the novel I'm working on like you said right now it's falling angels which is first draft material. It may be a brand new short story. It may be something behind the scenes ah like a lot of people don't know. Ah I was I was tapped to. To reboot Reanimator and my pitch for the reanimator reboot is available there on my patron. It never went anywhere but you know $5 a month you get access to all this stuff. It's it's thousands of pieces of content at this point. Um, what that does for me.

10:19.40

Brian Keene

You know it monetizes the first draft. Um I make about depending on the month you know depending on where people are financially I make between $1200 and $1700 of patron um, so that's. Vast majority of me and Mary's bill we we pay seventeen hundred a month for rent actually sixteen fifty um so you know on a really good patron month. The rent's taken care of and that's off of a first draft novel that. I haven't been paid for yet because it's not completed yet. You know what I mean because I'm completing I'm writing it in real time. Um, so it's incredibly freeing but like we were talking in the the first hour of the show about substack like anything else. You have to work at patron. To make it become successful. Um, you know? and um, I've always been willing to experiment with things like that and if if if I can't figure it out then I drop it and I move on to something else. Um, you know patron is. Something I've cracked the code on I've figured out how to make it work for me. Um I have gotten good enough at it that behind the scenes patron will come to me and ask for my opinion on new things. They're going to roll out and things like that they've had me test out some things before they went you know line wide.

11:51.95

Brian Keene

And the other thing is as far as my readers go I Love that instant feedback. Um I don't always pay attention to it because you know, ah.

12:07.20

Brian Keene

Yeah, my readers I I value their opinions but I may not always agree with their opinion on which way the story should go or what this character's going to do but I when I've particularly with the serials if if I've written something that I'm super excited about and super proud of. And immediately there's you know 7 or 12 comments of people that really fucking enjoyed that man I mean that just that makes my day right there you know.

12:36.87

Michael David Wilson

And I wonder once you have completed the first draft on Patreon so you've put the full book out what happens next how does that first draft differ from the eventual. Printed book and do you deliberately say that you're not going to alter a lot of it. Do you have free.

13:02.29

Brian Keene

Oh no no no, no yeah no if you look at ah the the long delayed next book in the Levi Stoltz food series invisible monsters. The entire novel is available on patron the first draft. Um and I can tell people right now. The entire second half of that novel when it is eventually published in book form that entire second half of that novel will be something completely different because I scrap the entire thing. The only place it's available is that patron first draft. Um the way I do it is you know I i. Type my first draft in word and I'm usually about 3 chapters ahead of whatever I post on patron um, but I'll copy and paste it from word on to patron um, when the novel's done then I start the second draft which is. not done on patron it's not done in the public eye. It's where I go through and read this thing critically and rewrite and scrap things and add things. Um, then I do a third draft which is mostly polish grammar punctuation spelling. Um I send it off to my beta readers. I've got a ah team of beta readers that I've used forever and we work well together. Um, and then they send me back their edits and suggestions I incorporate those send it off to the publisher. Um, so there are two drafts

14:33.51

Brian Keene

In between what's on Patron and what's eventually published and the public never sees those.

14:37.90

Michael David Wilson

And I'm wondering in terms of if you were to approach your publisher about putting it out. Do you think having a first draft available on Patreon might affect your prospects in terms of getting a deal. Like in ah in a kind of negative way. Do you think they could be mm.

15:00.48

Brian Keene

Well I mean bluntly speaking now in the the first hour of the show. We we talked a bit about privilege um to be blunt. Yes, if it were most other authors. It would impact their prospects. Ah, because publishers don't want that I know this sounds egotistical I don't mean it to sound egotistical but I get away with it because I'm Brian key. Ah you know? ah.

15:32.86

Brian Keene

The the publishers I work with they know the book is going to sell im printed form so they're they're okay with that patron serial um and and quite honestly the the published form is is usually different enough from the first draft that. You know it's not It's not a big deal to them and sometimes it's drastically different like I said when invisible monsters finally comes out the the whole second half of the novel is vastly different um than what folks read on patron.

16:05.73

Brian Keene

It's basically your spoiler alert. It's Levi versus Elon Musk is what it comes down to so.

16:13.21

Bob Pastorella

I mean and obviously if you're if you're putting out you know serializing a story on Patreon and it's a first draft and then you decide that hey I'm going to self publishlish this then you should have no qualms about the editorial process or anything like that.

16:33.80

Brian Keene

Right.

16:33.11

Bob Pastorella

Because you're in control of it and and at that point right there. It's probably good to let readers know hey this there's gonna be changes. You're gonna see you. You can see like you know, an early draft and then you get to see the finished product I I also feel that that could.

16:44.90

Brian Keene

Yeah, exactly.

16:52.80

Bob Pastorella

Potentially harm your chances of you know I mean you'd have to kind of go like almost on a like change up a lot of things or it's like hey yeah, it's not much different than what's on Patreon and I can get that for you know, five bucks a month.

17:07.96

Brian Keene

But see I worried about that at first. But what I found is the vast majority of my audience they they want to read the finished book. They don't you know because when I will.

17:21.21

Brian Keene

When I say we serialize it on patron it's not like you get in a new chapter every day you probably get a new chapter 3 times a week and in between that there are short stories and there's behind the scenes stuff and there's an essay. Um you know so some people don't want to wait. Every other day to read that serialized chapter they want to wait until it's published in book form you know and then read it all at once same same as bingeing you know Mary and I are watching a true detective season 4 right now and I'm not feeling it. Um, and. I wonder if it might work better to have all the episodes out and then sit down and binge them and consume them all at once you know what I mean because the weight in between I I just I check out and and I view patron as that.

18:17.25

Brian Keene

For those who who don't mind you know the breaks in between it's It's how they can consume it and for those who want to binge Well then they can wait till the book comes out.

18:32.46

Bob Pastorella

Yeah, because I thought about that it's like you know I have stories and and things like that that that I feel like would work better or would be a good self-published you know experiment. Ah.

18:48.48

Bob Pastorella

And you know with a good cover and you know paying for it doing it doing it all the right way and um, it's like well you know I could I could put it Out. You know start a Patron put it out there. Um, and so I'm um, ah, um, but I been kind of kicking around the idea. Ah. I Don't know when I'll get to it I have other stuff I need to finish and write and you know, but who knows I made it decide hey you know what I'm going to subpublish this and this is how I want to you know, try to try this out I mean if it fails it fails. But. You know? Ah I would still go on with the with the self-published. You know, aspect put it out as you know a finished product.

19:26.63

Brian Keene

Right? Well and there and there's certain things you know Michael you asked about you know how do my publishers react to me putting first drafts ever. There's certain things that'll never end up on patron um, for example, Maurice brought us and I we. We were ah solicited to write a new conan novel conan the barbarian um, ultimately, we had to turn the offer down ah but had we had we said yes and accepted the offer. That's not something that I'm going to serialize and put up on patron you know what? I mean or the anthology Christopher Golden and I are doing right now stories set in the world of Stephen King's the stand. Obviously you know Steve owns the rights to the stand I'm not going to and and. Other authors are writing their submissions for it. I'm not going to put any of that content up on patron I may eventually put the submission guidelines up there so people can see a behind the scenes of here's how we solicited you know the stories. Um. I could put some of me and Chris is text messages up theres of behind the scenes because they're fucking hilarious? Um, but yes, so not you yeah you got to decide. What's what's suitable for patron and and what's better left monetized elsewhere.

20:50.23

Michael David Wilson

Yeah I have to say that oh your Patreon talk is very inspiring for me personally because I mean recently I've been thinking how can I re-energize that is this horror Patreon because I do feel that it. You know we've we've got into a pattern. It's good. It works but I I almost want to give people a little bit more. We've got the early episodes. We've got the questions we've got exclusive episodes. But what you're doing is essentially giving. People something every single day and I I guess like my my worry was I didn't want to kind of oversaturate the feed and hit become too much but it sounds like it's probably.

21:41.72

Michael David Wilson

Not really like that at all and people can pick and choose what they do and don't read and tune into.

21:46.11

Brian Keene

Well exactly. That's exactly it they can they can choose to engage or they can choose not to that day I got 2 words for you want to you want to reenergize that this is hard patron blooper reels I mean like in between when when Bob fell out of his chair and his headphones. But.

21:57.77

Michael David Wilson

There you go.

22:06.20

Brian Keene

I mean if you had been recording that and then you put it? Yeah you know I'd I'd pay I'd pay extra for that every month.

22:07.24

Michael David Wilson

I know. Okay, you're gonna have to get some good accident insurance. Bob guess we might be getting you to do some stunts for the patrons.

22:22.93

Bob Pastorella

Why why? Why is it always I have to do the stunts. Why why? I'm the um I am I'm tetany like in this group right here I'm the oldest motherfucker here. So yeah.

22:26.21

Michael David Wilson

Billion.

22:27.53

Brian Keene

Um.

22:32.80

Michael David Wilson

You you built you built different Bob you're steady here.

22:37.91

Bob Pastorella

No I'm not dude I've lost dude I've lost so much weight I've become cold natured you know how much weight you have to lose to go from I'm hot all the time to fuck. It's cold. It's not even cold Bob it's cold. Are you cold I'm cold. Yeah.

22:54.40

Michael David Wilson

Gonna have to start doing my own stunts like Tom Cruise then but without the visual appeal but never mind well you mentioned the anthology. You've mentioned the andology a couple of times.

23:07.83

Brian Keene

Oh yeah.

23:11.50

Michael David Wilson

Stories set in Stephen King's the stand edited by yourself and christopher golden that yeah yeah, tell us how it came about.

23:17.53

Brian Keene

How about that all right? um I'm going to warn the audience I'm going to speak slower here because there's a lot that I'm not allowed to say about this and I love you both and you guys have always had a way of getting me to talk about things I shouldn't talk about so I'm going to go slow. But ah, you know it. It started with ah Chris saying Chris and I were talking one day. A. And because we we try to talk just about every other day and we were talking one day just about how god damn good. The stand still is and how it resonates even more now you know and not all novels do that particularly a horror novel. Um, and Chris said. Boy wouldn't it be cool if Steve would let us do an anthology of stories setting the world to stand I said that would be very cool and Chris said of course Steve has never let authors play with his toys like that and I said well maybe no one's ever asked. Maybe you know prettiest girl in school nobody asked her to the prom. So we emailed him. We said a a you know hey Steve we were. We were talking about this and you know be really cool and he responded almost immediately all caps. Do it. With 4 exclamation points and that's what I remember is the 4 exclamation points. So after I after I woke up after I'd passed out and after Chris woke up from passing out. We got back on the phone we're like all right is is he fucking with us or does he really mean do it. So yeah, we verified that that.

25:07.20

Brian Keene

He was not in fact, fucking with us and ah we were off to the races. Um for something like this of course everybody wants in because the stand is is such a seminal novel. Um. I would argue. It's probably the seminal modern horror novel. Um, you know and you can't you can't let everybody you'd love to let everybody in but you can't so what Chris and I did was ah we started with a list of about 100 names I put in 50 and he put in 50 and you know we just we went through and went through it and went through it until we thought we had a really really solid lineup and then we started asking people if if they wanted to be involved. Not everyone did um some of them were like you know? No i. I'm intimidated by that some of them you know, unfortunately, this didn't have the time time constraints ah 1 from a a hugely popular author who I won't name because I don't have his permission. He said no I don't want to do the stand. But if you guys can convince him to let you do Salem's lot as a follow up I'm in. Um, so Steve if you're watching you yet. We are going to come at you for Salem's lives but but ah yeah it here's the thing. Um, he didn't have to say yes to this.

26:36.19

Brian Keene

But he's he's incredibly gracious about it. Um, and for the first time in my life. It's it's a.

26:50.21

Brian Keene

Without getting into specifics. It's a deal that is in fact, life changing for me as we mentioned in the first hour of the show. It's able to take part of my advance and do this you know build a little something for Mary and I um so.

27:09.23

Brian Keene

Yeah that's 1 thing he never gets the credit for he does a lot behind the scenes for people people writers don't know about the Haven Foundation and if you don't you should ah you know Stephen Tabitha they have a private charity the haven foundation it exists to help writers. Ah. Who are experiencing hardships. Um, you know he he does a lot of stuff like that that it never occurs to people every time he goes on Twitter and and tweets about a book. Um, he doesn't have to do that you know, but it it helps everyone you know, um.

27:46.27

Brian Keene

Brian Smith's dirty Rotten hippies collection you know Steve one day tweeted about the cover and how awesome the cover was you know Brian got bigger sales that following week than he's ever gotten for anything. Um you know so so for him to.

28:05.44

Brian Keene

Not only trust Chris and I with his creations but to trust us with the stand. You know it it. It means a lot it means the world and and we intend to to honor that and respect that um you know we're telling people to bring their a game and. As the submissions come in. We we have not been afraid to send it back and say come on. You can you can do better than this this is the stand. Um I I think people are going to be really blown away. Um with the finished product.

28:39.10

Michael David Wilson

And in terms of guidelines that you had for offers is that anything that you can talk about and I mean.

28:49.24

Brian Keene

Um, yeah I yeah I don't I don't see why we couldn't um without spoilers of course. Ah, basically it can take place from the early days and and. The the terms I'm going to reference here if you've never read the stand. You're going to be lost but you should probably go read the stand before this book comes out. Um they could they could so they could deal with the early days of captain trips. You know when it's first making its way across the country. Ah they could deal with. When everybody split into camps you know in Nebraska and then Colorado or Las Vegas or they could go far into the future. Um, you know years after the end of the novel. Ah you know we didn't want them using.

29:41.58

Brian Keene

Stw or trash can man or Tom Cullen you know their stories have been told we wanted stories of other people. Um, of course if their story is set in boulder and. You know they're at the free zone committee meeting they can mention oh you know Stewart stood up and gave a speech but we we didn't want stories from most characters perspectives we wanted new stories new characters. The only exception for that ah was a story that Maurice brought us and actor comedian Wayne Brady are working on. I'm not going to tell you which character. Ah Steve approved it. Um, and that's a character that's a main character in the stories from their perspective but other than that, all new characters and just really have fun with it. We have a story from the point of view of the astronauts on the space station.

30:33.28

Brian Keene

A they can't get down b they're starting to have dreams. Um, you know we have ah a story set overseas I'm not going to say which country because I don't want to spoil anything but you know how would a ah character who lives in India or Pakistan or Europe. Who starts dreaming of mother Abigail in Nebraska how how do they get there in this world. You know, um, we have stories that are set far beyond the end of the novel envisioning what that world looks like you know, um, it's.

31:10.52

Brian Keene

It's really neat to see how this opportunity energized people's creativity. Um, you know, many of the stories we've gotten are are some of the best short stories these these folks have in their catalog. I think um so it it I'm really excited for people to read it I think it's gonna be a it's it's nobody's a bigger constant reader than me and Chris um, well that's not true, but you know Chris and I are are king fans. Okay, um. We absolutely recognize the weight we're carrying with this and we're not going to drop the ball you're going to be pleased.

31:55.72

Michael David Wilson

So do you have a projected release for this?

32:02.41

Brian Keene

Can't talk about that. Um I would I would say it would be ah maybe perhaps early Twenty Twenty five but that is only Brian bullshitting because Michael tricked him into being loose. Um, that is not anything that's carved in stone. Don't go on social medians. Oh Brian Keith said it was gonna be January Twenty Twenty five because I didn't say that I'm saying my guess would be that.

32:30.25

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, but this is how it happens this is how you see like hollywood reporter or someone pick something up. Its like it's like Brian Keene said 100% definitely

32:45.91

Michael David Wilson

Early 2025. Or they go even further. They just pick a date. They're like right? you said January Seven Twenty Twenty five but I I mean what 1 thing that sometimes anthologists and editors run run into is they'll get.

33:04.15

Michael David Wilson

2 submissions that are similar enough. Perhaps tonally perhaps in terms of a a character that they then kind of can't run both of them. So I'm wondering I mean. Have you put anything in place in case, you come up against that.

33:19.20

Brian Keene

Oh yeah, Oh yeah, we we had everybody had to give us basically the elevator pitch for their story. Um, and we did have a couple situations where tonally they were very similar so you know we gave some direction and and. And massage that out. Ah, but yeah, we we so set it up from the beginning that we wanted to before people started writing we wanted to know a general idea so that we a we didn't have stories repeating themselves but B so we could spread it out and. Last thing we wanted to do was you know 38 short stories all set at the start of the novel. You know that that's no good. Um, so.

34:05.99

Michael David Wilson

And then in terms of like weaving the puzzle together and the table of contents and ordering the stories are you looking to do them chronologically is that m.

34:21.46

Brian Keene

That's me. Chris is super good at doing the first edit when people submit him. Ah I think my talent is in putting the puzzle together reading the stories and saying oh this is a good opener. Chronologically this should follow. Um, that's how we did it with the the drive-in multiplex the the anthology we did similar to this. But for Joe R Lansdale's the drive-in mythos. Um, you know, ah and i'm. Basically just using the same method for this I can give you one spoiler I can give you 1 spoiler David J Scow's story will close the anthology.

35:18.28

Bob Pastorella

Yeah, and I get I guess in going chronological I mean I assume that y'all are using the ah the later version of the stand compared.

35:27.96

Brian Keene

Yeah, we decided the yeah we decided that the uncut the version. The version that's set in the 90 s that was gonna be canon. Um and and for that we ah we consulted with Ben Vincent you know the.

35:32.30

Bob Pastorella

Compared to the lean and mean original one.

35:47.44

Brian Keene

The resident king expert and and you know and Bev said yeah, most most readers consider that one to be the canon so that was the one we went with so the stories will be set during that time.

36:03.38

Bob Pastorella

Yeah I remember reading it and obviously I read the the original one first which I guess it's now called the lean and the lean and mean and it ain't lean at all. Ah, you know it's It's still a doorstoper but ah.

36:19.89

Bob Pastorella

Remember when it when it came out people were like you know it was like why did he do this and I'm like going I've read it and I was like it's fantastic I mean it's like it. It's just a took something and made it even better. It's like because it's longer I'm like no, it's just better. It's not long. Length has nothing to do with it.

36:39.60

Bob Pastorella

So yeah, that's I'm glad y'all made that canon. Um, because that would have been confusing in the timeline wait is it the 80 s or 90 s what's the deal.

36:48.51

Michael David Wilson

And so I'm wondering. Will there be anything between the stories.

36:55.72

Brian Keene

You mean, like little editorial notes or something like that.

37:01.88

Michael David Wilson

Well I mean sometimes in these situations that there. Ah, there's like another kind of story connecting it together.

37:10.46

Brian Keene

Now Now the story connecting it together is is the novel the stand. Um, and we've been lucky enough. We've got a good stable of authors that you know every story is its own and stands on its own.

37:13.26

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, yeah.

37:26.13

Brian Keene

But when you put the puzzle together. They tell a ah broader story as well. So yes, so there won't be anything like that. So that was that was the 1 thing you know Chris and I are both believers in you know if you're editing the anthology. You shouldn't put your own story in the anthology.

37:45.20

Brian Keene

That's what we were raised. That's raised on. That's what we were taught and and that's what we try to do um it killed us not to write a story for the drive in Anthology. Um, and it's killing us even more not to story for anthology. But you know it is what it is. Happy to give other people the opportunity.

38:04.85

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, yeah, no, that's certainly the school that I'd subscribe to as well. It's like if I'm the anthologist or the editor then I'm also not the writer. You know one or the other for yeah I can't wait to read this and.

38:14.92

Brian Keene

Right.

38:24.15

Michael David Wilson

I mean hopefully when it comes out which may or may not be 2025 then we could do a roundtable with a number of the offers and really get into this.

38:32.95

Brian Keene

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

38:37.15

Michael David Wilson

But we've got a question from Tracy Kenworth via Patreon and she wants to know she wants to know with the opening of the bookstore does this mean that you and Mary may.

38:42.98

Brian Keene

Okay, hi Tracy.

38:55.70

Michael David Wilson

Retire from writing will you be looking to scale things back. Also what does this mean for your other ventures such as the Patreon and the newsletter and other things that you've got going on.

39:09.32

Brian Keene

That's a good question Tracy um, there will always be a newsletter There will always be a patron um, you know I I need that newsletter that. I look for to Saturday mornings. That's when I do my newsletter and I look forward to writing that that essay every week for readers. Um I need that in my life. So no I would never stop doing that. Um, you know, does it mean we're going to retire from writing absolutely not. Writers don't retire. They just die. Um, but we are both aware that we're slowing down I used to be able to sit down and write five six thousand words a day I know that doesn't sound like a lot but it is um these days I'm lucky if I can do 2000 um, part of it is arthritis part of it is I have to stand up and move every hour. Um, you know I got a little alarm that makes me do that part of it is just you know eyesight. Um, as you get older you slow down. Um, so.

40:22.71

Brian Keene

Neither of us intend to ever stop writing but we would both like to get to a place where we don't have to write all day every day you know? Um I would still write every day because I I enjoy writing every day but. You know, maybe it's an hour a day. Maybe it's 2 hours a day. Um, we would like very much to get to that point. Um, so the the bookstore is a a way of reaching that point if that makes sense.

40:52.98

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, yeah, and in terms of the bookstore itself. I mean you have obviously put a lot of things in place to as much as one can guarantee that it is a success so I want to know. A little bit about those kind of steps that you've taken and what perhaps you'll be offering that a number of bookstores aren't offering.

41:21.77

Brian Keene

Yeah, um I mean the first thing I did was talk to dell and Sue Hallison who run dark delicacies out in Burbank California um, you know we mentioned in the first hour of the show that hey Zeus and I used to talk about doing this. Um. What we would say is we should see if dell and sewell let us franchise dark delicacies and we'll do it on the East Coast um so the store is designed very much with with them as sort of our spiritual guides. Um, you know we're now. Dark delicacies features are we have a huge horror section. But we're we're also speculative fiction. So there's a sci-fi and fantasy section. There's a media tie in section. There's a bizarro section over there. Um, there's an.

42:11.82

Brian Keene

Entirere second half of the store back here. That's comic books and magazines and pulps and graphic novels. Um, but you're not going to find chicken soup for the soul. You're not going to find whatever Oprah's pitching it's a speculative fiction store. Um. As far as what we're offering a knowledgeable staff. First of all, um, and that's not just me and Mary whoever whoever we hire on. They're going to have to have a a love for this. Not necessarily a knowledge because if they're young, they might not have the knowledge yet but they have to have a love for it.

42:49.20

Brian Keene

Um, you know we've been doing this long enough that we know every single person in this industry and most of them like us. Um, so you know we're gonna we're gonna have it's gonna be in a ah. A destination driven store I don't know that the average person who lives here in town and walks by I don't know that they're going to come in every day and spend money some will um but you know dark delicacies butcher cabin books down in Kentucky these are places that. You make a point to go and visit um and and this will this will be the same way I've already had people saying you know I'm coming out from Michigan this summer can you recommend a hotel where it's nearest airport. Um. You know we're we'll have events every week of course and and that's where knowing everybody comes into play you go through the rolodex and hey I see you have a new novel coming out in August let's schedule a signing. Um, we're going to do workshops and classes. Ah. Mike Hawthorne the comic artist who's known for Deadpool and Spiderman and Batman you know he's going to come in and do a ah you know some some live drawing live illustrating so people can see how that's done. Um, you know all kinds of things like that. Ah.

44:15.36

Brian Keene

Basically just trying to build a community out of the store. We're very close to Philly to Baltimore to Dc. Not that far from New York city so you know we're we're hoping that we'll have some events that'll that'll draw people in once a month you know they'll make it down here for that. Um, make sure that everyone who walks in the door feels welcome and special and valued um which is the same thing you do with your readers. You know it's it's it's a different it's ah a different transaction but it's still your customers. You know you you want to make sure every reader who read your book whether they liked it or not that you you want them to know that you're grateful for them that they spent the money that they took the time. You want them to know that you you value their input and it's it's gonna be the same with everybody that walks in through that door. Um, you know so that's what we're striving for I went off the weeds I'm not sure I actually answered the question did I okay well.

45:21.51

Michael David Wilson

No I did I think you did and I mean you mentioned having a load of upcoming events and already on the website in spite of the store not being open yet. You have got a lot of events book.

45:37.50

Brian Keene

Well, that's I don't even have them all up I had to stop because I'm just like this is overkill Brian you know there's ah, there's some stuff I haven't even announced yet. But yeah early on we have ah the very first signing is going to be Stephen Kozzewski summer cannon wiley young and Wesley Southed ah they're followed a week later by Todd Keesling and Cynthia Palo ah and followed I think two weeks after that by John urban sick Jessica Epley and Matt Wilson and yeah I've booked out through. December of this year like I said I haven't announced them all yet. But it's it's it's going to be a happening hopping place. Man.

46:17.86

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, yeah, and for these events for people interested. Can they just show up. Do they need to get a ticket in advance. How will that work.

46:28.61

Brian Keene

Not show up show up. Show up. Um, you know if if it's somebody who we like let's say hypothetically we have Paul tremble or Joe Hill or tanner of do signing here I'm going to expect a line I'm going to expect a crowd and and we're gonna we're going to treat that accordingly. Um, if it's John arig John's one of my best friends in the world. So he knows I say this with love. But. John Ai n't going to have 6 blocks of people lined up out there. So you know we we can we we know what to expect depending on who's signing and what the event is um, but no I don't see that we'll be selling tickets or anything. Um, if it's let's say Dean cz comes back to Pennsylvania to visit. Family and he wants to do a signing. We're probably not going to have him do a reading because the room where all that takes place only holds 30 people maximum. Um, so we probably just do a signing and they you know they'll come in the door and buy their book and go through and get him to sign it and go out the other door. Um, but. Yeah, it's it's it'll all be very manageable.

47:42.48

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, we we need to have a way to make sure that we suddenly drop in your bookstore to Dean Koontz so when we talk to him next week see if we can get him booked.

47:51.83

Brian Keene

Well and ah, the and what what I want to mention to folks, you know I know that people have limitations that you know there's probably someone out there right now who said oh. Brian Keen thinks I can just afford to fly there from Australia. Well no I'm not saying that at all. Um, anybody who does a signing here at the store. Their books are available for preorder at vortex books and comics.com um, so it doesn't matter where you are in the world. You can still get your book signed you preorder. It. Let us know how you want it signed and the day they're here in the store I'll have them sign your copy. You know, go in the mail the next day yeah

48:34.11

Michael David Wilson

There you go You don't have to fly to the book. The book will fly to you m.

48:39.83

Brian Keene

Exactly I mean you know we're not going to put the entire store's inventory online because that would be ridiculous. But yeah I've got 2000 comic books over here in this room I'm not going to put every one of those online but anybody that's here doing a signing. Books signed copies are available to preorder and you know then they'll they'll be available afterward while supplies last.

49:02.39

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, and obviously you've got a lot of rare Collectibles. You've got a lot of things that are difficult to get a hold of so I mean you you said you won't have obviously the entire inventory online particularly I imagine because. You know it changes from day to day. But if somebody yeah if somebody were looking for a specific issue. Let's say of a comic I mean could they email you and ask you do you have that in is that.

49:35.90

Brian Keene

I'm probably I'd love to be as a fan and a collector I'd love to be able to offer that but as a realistic business person I'm not going to I'm not going to open that door. Um like I'll give you an example.

49:51.90

Brian Keene

There's a room back that way 2 rooms past this room where I have books signed by Brian Lumley who regretfully just passed I have books signed by Stephen King I have I have a chat book. Monica o'rourke signed to Weston Oaks and then somehow Dave Thomas from the horror show ended up with it and Jeff Cooper then signs it fuck Weston this is yours now. Um, you know that's a piece of history. Um. You know rare stuff like that that I only have one copy of you're going to have to come here to the store to get it I you know I've got ah a first edition clickers paperback that Hazus Gonzalez signed to Dave. That's not even going to be for sale. That's that's going to be in the. Display case between their two ashes. Um, you know, but there's there's so much rare stuff that we have in addition to new books and I yeah I don't want to risk sending something like that through the mail I mean.

51:00.30

Brian Keene

Brian Lumley's not here to sign books anymore you you buy that sign Brian Lumley off of me I mail it to you the post office eats it between here and Japan we're all screwed you know so a lot of it. Yeah, you're going to have to make the trip but you know. If you if you're a Cynthia palleo fan or a summer cann fan or a todd keesling fan. You can get your book signed. We will take care of you. You know.

51:23.97

Michael David Wilson

Alright and in terms of the live readings and events are there any plans to put videos online would you potentially stream it live would it be available after The. Ah, then I'm I'm just thinking for people who can't get mm.

51:45.10

Brian Keene

Possible possibly? Um, what we're doing tonight this appearance on this is horror is actually a test run for me I wanted to see a how good the wifi is b if the sounds of street traffic out there were interfering. Now you guys haven't complained so I'm guessing you have haven't been able to hear the street traffic. Um, yeah, we may I don't think we'll do it for the first signing Koski young southern and canon I don't think we'll do it in time for them. But I think eventually.

52:07.28

Michael David Wilson

There's not been a lot at all now.

52:20.76

Brian Keene

We will probably livestream. You know the Q and a the readings. Um, we won't live stream everything because you know you you you want to give people a reason to come to the store. Um, but yeah I think for some of the.

52:33.90

Michael David Wilson

Um, yeah.

52:37.81

Brian Keene

The bigger things or the things that are going to be really fun like we have Jeff Strand in September now if you've never had an opportunity to hear Jeff strand read live. It is an event I can't see not live streaming that you know what I mean so yeah, well well. Play it by ear. But I'm thinking along those lines I for a brief moment I thought about well we could just do a new podcast. You know, call it from the vortex and I would interview people before they sign and then Mary said are you insane. You you have enough to do you don't need'd start another podcast so she taught me out of it. I'm glad she did. But.

53:15.17

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, yeah, I feel so many ideas I can translate into that could be a podcast and it's like no now you already have 1 bloody podcast just slow it down. But.

53:24.84

Brian Keene

Right? Yep, 1 is enough.

53:34.77

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, um, in terms of the internet connection by the way when we do these I make sure that it's pretty high resolution that we're recording and so for some people you know I have to turn that down a bit but your connection is.

53:50.75

Brian Keene

Good. What what? they're charging me and what they're charging me a month had better. Be good.

53:51.47

Michael David Wilson

Yeah, has managed to do it No problem. So it's looking good. Yeah yeah, yeah, it seems good for the live stream and for recording. So yeah, the the test run is a success.

54:05.93

Brian Keene

Good.

54:09.55

Michael David Wilson

But I mean you of course put your own money into this you then had an additional go fund me so I'm wondering how that came about and. What kind of things have you been able to do to take it to the next level as a result of the go fund me.

54:31.22

Brian Keene

I was pretty adamant that I did not want to do a go fund me. Um because I I always feel weird about doing those now. Don't get me wrong when I when I had my accident when I got burned for listeners who don't know I I had second and third degree burns on my head on my arm. My elbow was down to the bone. Um and I don't have health insurance so I was I was very grateful for the gofund me that Stephen Koz Iski and Joe Ripple started um, but in general I don't like doing that I don't mind contributing to them I don't mind signal boosting them I just I don't like doing one for myself but a lot of people whose opinions I trust who have been in this business longer than I have. Said you ought to do a go fund me, you ought to give the community a chance to feel like they contributed that they were a part of this till and I said all right? So what's a reasonable amount. Let's let's do 20 k thinking we wouldn't get 20 k maybe we'd get 5 or 10 and that would be fine. In hindsight I'm very glad that people wiser than me talked me into doing that because what happened is Mary and I sunk a substantial sum into this and had no money left over by inventory and you know.

56:00.52

Brian Keene

books are are expensive comic books are expensive so ah you know with people doing that we we were able to stock the store if if people hadn't contributed. It would have been the saddest looking bookstore on opening day there'd have been like 4 copies faced out on each shelf and you know, um. So incredibly grateful and incredibly grateful to to our peers who sent signed books and to fans who sent books from their collections like I don't want these anymore I've got an almost complete run of William W John Stone's novels over there now. When I was 14 I loved William W Johnstone's horror novels at 56 I don't love them. They're objectively terrible but they are big with the nostalgia factor right now and they're hugely popular because of Grady's paperbacks from hell. Um. And they're impossible to find let alone in in the condition they're in and and we had our readers just like here I don't want these anymore I love your books. Love what you're doing these are for the store. Um, you know that could potentially be a month's rent if we sold them all on opening day. Um, you know so so many people I don't want to start listing names because I know I'll forget but you know like like Owen King sent us a bunch of signed rarities and Chris Tria Aaron Beauregard Daniel Volpe Tim Waagoner so many Dwayne Strazinski I just

57:36.14

Brian Keene

Opened a box from him yesterday one signed copy of pretty much his entire backlist. Um, you know for people to do that it it. It does feel like it's it's the community's store. You know what? I mean Um, so I'm glad that I was convinced to. To do the go fund me even though I was really adamant about not doing it at first. Um, so yeah and I'm sure there'll be hiccups and headaches and things I haven't anticipated and you know it's like that in everything you do, but you know. We're going to hit the ground running like I said we hope to be open next week and you know as we make mistakes we'll learn from them and course correct.

58:20.77

Michael David Wilson

And for people listening who want to support the store be it financially be it in any capacity. What kind of things can they do.

58:33.19

Brian Keene

I mean ah you know, look if you're looking to sell your collection be it books be it. Pulp magazines be it comics. You know we're not only selling. We're also buying because we're gonna have high turnover. Um.

58:50.66

Brian Keene

You know? But if if you if you have stuff like that that you want to donate send it to the address on the web website vortex books and comics.com. Um, it's not tax deductible I'd like to tell you it is but it's not but we appreciate it. Um, you know if if you want to support it financially and and. You're within driving distance. Well come shop here and if you're not in driving distance Go to the web website and and click signed copies or I What what does it say on hang on. Let me pull up the web website I should know this vortex books and comics got okay imit. If you go to online store you click the tab that says online store as I said you can you can preorder sign copies on there. You do that? That's helping us out you know or just spread the word Once we're open and and I would.

59:48.76

Brian Keene

Look I I've never been 1 to mince words and over the last thirty years rightfully or wrongfully that I've earned my fair share of detractors. Um, if you dislike me. If you're a reader and you dislike me know that you're still welcome to come shop here I mean it when I say this door is open to everybody. Um, you know, maybe don't tell me I'm an asshole while I'm behind a counter but you come come and shop you know and we're happy to have you and if you're a writer. Who dislikes me know that you can still come here and do a signing we are happy to accommodate. You were happy to host you. You know reach out. Um I mean it when I say this is for everybody so that's all.

01:00:40.44

Michael David Wilson

I had other questions but I'm almost tempted to end the episode there because it's just such a perfect ending but I don't know one of the most positive things I've ever.

01:00:49.33

Brian Keene

Well, that's the that's the only ending I've ever gotten right.

01:00:57.80

Michael David Wilson

One of the most positive things I've ever heard you say.

01:01:01.70

Brian Keene

So there you go, for everybody who has given me shit about the ending to the rising since 2003 there's a happier ending for you right there.