TIH 568: Kev Harrison on Adventure Horror, Shadow of the Hidden Publication Journey, and Heavy Metal

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16:51.60
Michael David Wilson
It took you a number of years from writing Shadow of the hidden to finishing it I believe in mid 2022 and now finally having it out. So let's talk about that 2 year journey to publication.

17:24.49
Kev Harrison
Well, yeah, um, it's It's a funny one really because like I said it was It was my first novel I was very keen to find a good home which I did um I shopped it to a few places and it got short listed by a few places. Um. But ultimately passed on and I think maybe part of that was the setting being quite unconventional and like people not really knowing who it who it's maybe for you know what? I mean like you know are people going to want to read this when it's in such unfamiliar. Setting with unfamiliar folklore Unfamiliar um, kind of rules of engagement as it were ah so I think that possibly led to it being not taken a chance on as it were but then.

18:18.97
Kev Harrison
I gave it to Brigids Gate Press who originally took it and they quite quickly came back and said that they were very keen but they had already signed up an absolute avalanche books for the back end of 2023 and they didn't want it to kind of disappear. Into an over overburdened release schedule. So they said yeah, we're going to do spring 2024 and it was originally going to be coming out in April Actually it towards the end of April and then I said to them look I'm going to go to wateron. Do you reckon. We could move it forward a month so I can take copies there and do like a soft launch type thing and they were like. Yes, we can so. That's what we did? yeah.

19:00.48
Michael David Wilson
And what is your experience working with the press been like I mean I understand to you that there was quite an editorial process with I've never said her name out loud is it is it Elle Turpitt?

19:18.20
Kev Harrison
Elle Turpitt yeah oh my god I'm so glad you mentioned that because um, it's really funny actually when I um ah my previous book the novella below I worked with Kenneth W Kne who as you know is a legendary editor. And it's really interesting that like the experience I had with both these editors was completely fantastic and completely different. So for example, when working with Kenneth Kane 1 of the things that he like the being in his bonnet as it were is like pov and like I mean having worked with him on that one book. Like I am just so much more aware of being on top of pov and making sure that yeah my point of view character is always always only seeing what they can see and never seeing something they shouldn't be able to do what I mean like I'm I'm so much more hyper awarere of that ever since going through our editing processs are below. And that was a massive positive for me working with lep it was really different and 1 thing that I really loved that she did um for this book and I believe she does for all books is she gave me the line edit with suggestions and you know she's very very hot on grammar very hot on punctuation I'm pretty good on grammar. My punctuation could do could be better so that was useful and but she also supplies like a um ah reader report which breaks the book down into blocks of 5 chapters and like so she'll like go through chapter 1 to five six to 10 for plot.

20:51.39
Kev Harrison
And then for character development and then for world building and then for grammar and but punctuation and so you've got like this general, you've you've got like the the line at it where it's like you know I think you should you need to explain this particular thing happening here or why is this person saying this or who is saying this or whatever um on a very kind of. Micro level. But then on this macro level as well. You've got like okay this midsection of the book from chapter. Sorry yeah from traps like 11 to 15 um, it feels like the pace steps up a little bit too much and I think you need to slow it down to make it more sort of in line with the rest of the book and just this was just. So invaluable just stuff that I wasn't able necessarily to look at when you're so close to the book. You've been working for such a long time just having someone to say like you know like pacing is good. Good here runs away just roll it back a little bit incredibly incredibly useful.

21:46.85
Michael David Wilson
And and so when you had a situation where you're being asked to roll back the pacing What kind of things were you putting in to ensure that you're putting things In. Ah. Contributing to the story rather than just being filler that could essentially be removed.

22:02.70
Kev Harrison
Sure Yeah, Some really good point. Well ah yeah, I'm ah probably doing her a bit of a disservice here actually because what she would do is she would say yeah I think the reason the pace here has gone away from itself is because we don't have as much character reaction For example, like. Um, like we're seeing the events but we're not seeing how it's impacting the characters in a consistent way with how you have in the rest of the book and so that kind of enabled me to let me say um, ah sort of rein in that pace a little bit so it was more consistent but without it just being yeah fill out without it just being. Fat.

22:37.92
Michael David Wilson
And I wonder too How many instances were there where there was a suggestion or a note where you disagreed with it and kind of what did those conversations look like because I Think. You know as a writer. It's important to know what notes to take on and then what to say Actually you know this was a deliberate Choice. So This is the aesthetic or the effect that I'm going for.

23:09.67
Kev Harrison
Yeah, there were some bits where especially I think that was more ah well yeah, mainly in the line at it but also in the in the reader report there were some bits where I disagreed and I wrote notes back and my notes were generally accepted. But I think I. Made the decision to ah fight back on the things that I felt were really important and then some of the other things I kind of was able to look at and go like Yukka I can see this perspective So it Yeah, it felt very much like a collaborative process which I really really enjoyed and I definitely feel.. It brought the best out of the book. Definitely.

23:44.73
Michael David Wilson
So yeah and it's so great that you've had 2 really positive and too contrasting in many ways editorial experiences. So.

23:54.42
Kev Harrison
Yeah, completely different, but both totally invaluable I would say.

23:59.17
Michael David Wilson
And I think too when we kind of go away from an edit and then we have things that we can apply to future works I mean that that is when it's really gold when you yeah, you're almost writing something or looking through a draft and you hear.

24:08.89
Kev Harrison
Absolutely yeah, that's gold isn't it. Yeah yeah.

24:19.28
Michael David Wilson
Max Booth his voice in your head and he's telling you something and it's not just a dick joke. It's actually very good editorial line and then you know you can go forward and you can you can do that a lot of the notes bizarrely that have really.

24:37.24
Michael David Wilson
I say bizarrely because you wouldn't you know his job isn't primarily being an editor is actually you know my film manager Ryan Lewis he is so sharp with his observations. So even though he does stuff on the film side. I send him every single you know book length story that I write because he will just spot things. Yeah yeah, and every time he makes things better.

25:00.42
Kev Harrison
It's going to come back with something. Yeah.

25:01.57
Bob Pastorella
It Yeah, seems like a good editor can like they can quickly determine what your story is and you know they it's like they know more about it than you do and you wrote the thing.

25:21.17
Bob Pastorella
And to me that's that that when you can be that in tune with fiction that that's like a art form. You know when you have a good, especially a good line editor that actually does content and you know the copy editing and stuff like that.

25:40.27
Bob Pastorella
Ah I remember the first time I got edited like by a really really good editor and ah it was eye openinging and I I learned a lot I learned a lot but I've been edited by bad Editor. Ah had a story basically accepted with no edits so you know, ah, there was very very very few very few notes that you know was just like oh like hey yeah accept changes you know and ah and then later you know had to go back and and cringe. Its like oh wow so I've had I've had both experiences but yeah, having a good editor to me. It's just uncanny how they just they know more about it than you do and you're like god damn how? ah miss that I can't believe it but you learn from it.

26:32.53
Kev Harrison
Yeah, absolutely going back to what you're saying as well about working with bridges gate more more generally I think the thing that I really love about working with them is that um, they're just always available for contact like. And this is one of the things that a lot of my writer friends have have sort of talked about recently you know with like um one of the biggest problems with working in small press is that a lot of the time. Yeah, you won't hear back from messages emails. Whatever. For yeah, sometimes months at a time and you'll think like are they ghosting me are they our business. You know what's going on here. Um, and with bridges gate. It's been It's just been so good that you know I can just drop them I can send them an email like something more formal or I can send a message on yeah private message on Twitter and yeah, we're always within a few days they'll come back to me with an update or if they are busy. They'll say oh look. We're busy, but we'll get back to you. You know within two days wherever and it's normally quicker than the timeline that they they originally suggested so I mean that in terms of peace of mind is for me invaluable.

27:44.70
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, and of course they don't take all the riots seeever because as you say you're putting out the Audiobook independently and I do think like looking over that contract and just making sure that it seems fair for you.

28:02.77
Michael David Wilson
If possible getting an independent party getting a lawyer getting an agent getting someone who's been there before to look over it just as you know there's There's a lot of good presses out there. But unfortunately we've all heard stories and. Probably know people firsthand where you know that hasn't always been the Case. So but I mean you said before that in terms of like marketing I know that you're going kind of all out.

28:24.19
Kev Harrison
Absolutely yeah.

28:39.78
Michael David Wilson
With this one and so one of the things I believe that you're doing is a bookbub promotion.

28:45.66
Kev Harrison
Yeah I did the new releases for less bookbub. So I know that like the kind of crowning glory of book bub promotions is the feature deal thing which is quite expensive but I I've have quite a few writer friends who've managed to have one of these and have. Made a real success fit. Um, you know selling thousands of copies of their book albeit at Ninety nine cents or whatever. Um, so because um, bridges gate decides to put a shadow the hidden and they put all of their books generally on a pre-order deal of like ninety nine cents just to try and get it charting. Before before release kind of thing I did this new releases for last thing with bookbub I don't know as yet. What the sales numbers were but I did get a little Amazon bestseller sticker for a couple of days so that's encouraging so it will I mean after three months of sales I will find out. What the numbers really were and we'll see if it if it paid off there or not but I think with all these things like you have to kind of if if you can obviously if you can afford it if you have the money sitting around. You have to try. These things out and see how it works and in this case I decided that I could afford to give that a go and see how it turned out and so we will see how it turned out in in due course.

30:14.62
Michael David Wilson
And in terms of looking at those metrics would that be because bridges gate are you know, accounting to you and are giving you those royalty statements or is there actually anything within bookbub where you can. Track The referrals.

30:33.74
Kev Harrison
Well book Bob give you clicks but the clicks don't necessarily translate to sales. That's a thing. So yeah, it's very up in the air in that sense. Um, also they don't chart the ones for example, like if um, if I click on a book bobb. It normally goes to Amazon us or Spain but my kinddoor account is it attach to Uk.

30:51.82
Kev Harrison
That would not count as a click for that sale. so yeah um so I mean ah yeah, bridge gate are another thing about them actually that's really good is that they are so hot on giving you rarty statements with spreadsheets breaking down the sales from that month of sorry those three months from you know from Amazon from Bnn from wherever it may be so yeah I will find out the kind of hard facts about that after three months up beyond launch basically.

31:22.72
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, and very tangently related to marketing I've noticed a number of people classified this one as action horror or certainly having an action horror slant. But I mean when I was reading it.

31:42.22
Michael David Wilson
I would say that rather than action horror. It's more adventure horror. So yeah.

31:48.64
Kev Harrison
That's what I went for like that's actually the subtitle of the book a novel of adventure horror and that's a marketing thing from an Amazon ads course I did this this last year where they said if you can add subtitles with the the name of the subgenre you're working in. Apparently it means that when you promote with Amazon ads it makes it easier to find people who like that kind of jam.

32:12.73
Michael David Wilson
And so is that literally in the book. Does it say this is an adventure horror novel within the book like as a literal subtitle or is that.

32:23.32
Kev Harrison
It says it basically on the title. It's just on the listings on the internet. Basically that's it.

32:29.61
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, yeah, cause like you do see some books that they literally on the cover say a novel. Yeah a horror novel a Cosmic horror novel and I understand why people.

32:37.36
Kev Harrison
It says a horror novel.

32:48.41
Michael David Wilson
Do it but there's something conduct for me personally, it sits a little bit uneasy I don't want it? Yeah yeah, you know like we didn't see that like back back in the day Moby Dick story about a fucking whale mate.

32:50.99
Kev Harrison
Um, yeah, yeah I think it's a bit weird.

33:06.15
Michael David Wilson
Something like that.

33:06.64
Kev Harrison
Um I wonder they do one that says like a novel made of paper but not for the ebook. Obviously that'd be silly.

33:10.90
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, yeah, well I mean they they could you? It would be factually incorrect. But anyway moving moving away from that.

33:24.86
Kev Harrison
Anyway.

33:29.71
Michael David Wilson
As this is a novel that involves a curse I Wonder what is the nearest you have experienced to having a curse placed on you and you can interpret that as widely as you like and.

33:45.68
Kev Harrison
Okay, well ah, some people might know this some people might not know this but I'm a mancity fan which is a football team or soccer as americans would know it. Um and the only season where I was living in the u k. And earning like the kind of money where I could actually go regularly to games was the season where we had a former england footballer called Stuart Pearce as our manager and it was ah one of the most turgid and awful seasons of football that any team has played in the history of mankind. And I went to like the most games I've been to in my whole life during that season where no goals were scored. No fun was had um, it was just it was like sort of I noticed like going to like 1 of the really miserable churches every week so that was that was definitely a curse in my life. It felt like a curse.

34:39.42
Michael David Wilson
Yeah.

34:39.63
Bob Pastorella
And you think it was bad for you. Imagine how they felt.

34:45.80
Kev Harrison
True story where are you guys any curses in your lives.

34:48.31
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, but I suppose I mean well hang On. Let's continue with Man City for a moment because I mean I feel it like in terms of being a man's city. Fan I mean you you were probably like kind of born in the wrong time because if you'd have been born like a decade or two later then you know your childhood and seeing Man City it. Yeah yeah, but you know unfortunately when we were.

35:12.27
Kev Harrison
Would have just been like glory. Yeah.

35:21.19
Michael David Wilson
Growing up that they were not a great team. Let's let's be honest, yeah, um, but you was it I mean that's that's what every kind of 90 s yeah saw every 90 s dad says about any sort of trauma. But yeah.

35:21.78
Kev Harrison
Mostly crap. Yeah, mostly crap? Yeah yeah, but I think that was like character building. It gave me get here sort of resilience.

35:38.41
Kev Harrison
Exactly exactly.

35:40.84
Michael David Wilson
I'm not sure if it's actually grounded in reality. Ah, but you you're asking us if we'd had any sort of curs is what what about you? Bob I yeah, what about you? Bob.

35:47.74
Kev Harrison
Um, yeah, any curses in your lives guys.

35:55.20
Bob Pastorella
Yeah, you know I have it. It's not even my saying but I've kind of adopted it. It's if it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck because I have like the worst luck.

36:08.82
Kev Harrison
My god.

36:14.96
Bob Pastorella
Ah, every I am I have to be cursed because I have no luck everything that I have I've had to prepare for and earn I have if if if I won a ferrari.

36:33.71
Bob Pastorella
Okay, it would something would happen to it I could put it in a garage covered up with a tarp give the keys to someone else and say I don't want to drive it I Just want to own it I'd say within a year The some the garage would collapse or something and damage the car because that's it I wouldn't even have to touch it. That's just that's me but I hey yeah, and hate to inform you our garage collapsed? Oh really, yeah, that's the same. Yeah, your car was in it and I'd be like fuck.

36:54.90
Kev Harrison
Oh my god.

37:10.40
Bob Pastorella
And in the back of my mind being like yeah, that's your life. You don't have any luck you know So I just it's probably why I don't I don't give myself things because I'm gonna they're gonna get fucked up by by something. Not even me, you know.

37:27.78
Kev Harrison
You don't buy lottery tickets like ever. No.

37:29.75
Bob Pastorella
Ah, no, no, never I've been my grandmother gave me a hundred dollars to go gamble when I was old enough to go into the casinos in Louisiana and so we went to go gamble and she gave me a hundred dollars and she said you know we're going to be here for a couple hours make it last and within 20 minutes I'm looking for my grandma because I have no money left you know and and it's like and and she's like what are you doing and I'm like oh and you're over here playing the slots.

38:06.54
Bob Pastorella
And she goes what did you go play I said I went played poker and she goes. You're not very good I said oh I know and they told me that too. You know? So yeah I got I got on like a $5 table and that was it I mean I was out within like a couple minutes and it just like well shoot I've got I've got $10 left

38:19.50
Kev Harrison
Oh my god.

38:24.67
Bob Pastorella
You know I got enough to go get me a coke you know you'll get a soft drink in here. So I sat there for the next two and a half hours twiddling my thumbs watching her pull the slots and she's just raking it in. You know she's playing nickel slots and she you know I laugh with. Came up here with a hundred and fifty and I left with 400 that's good I'm like going man I wish I had that kind of luck. So no I don't buy lottery tickets or anything like that at all what about you? Michael are you cursed Michael.

38:52.50
Kev Harrison
Okay, so Bob's definitely cast Michael what about you?

38:55.19
Michael David Wilson
Or at least at least Bob she made back. Not only you know the hundred dollars that you had lost but then about another 150 on top of that so that there's some pretty prolific gambling right? there.

39:00.40
Bob Pastorella
Yeah I just.

39:11.37
Bob Pastorella
Yeah, yeah, she was and she was good at pulling that slot man didn know that that sounded really bad.

39:13.66
Michael David Wilson
Ah, suppose if ever there was an endorsement for gambling. It would be your grandmother.

39:23.28
Kev Harrison
Um, you knowx lot of euphemism.

39:23.73
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, yeah, it were it it. It did cut forward with my reaction but I wasn't I was drawing attention to it you you didn't need to say anything. Um.

39:29.39
Bob Pastorella
But ah, as soon as as soon as it left see what I mean I'm cursed as soon as it left my mouth. You know I was like oh shit she's rolling over and grave right now.

39:36.98
Kev Harrison
Ah.

39:40.75
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, yeah.

39:47.42
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, yeah I mean the the issue is having me as your co-host which is a kind of curse in and of itself. So there you go again. But I mean we well we kind of like touched on.

39:49.27
Bob Pastorella
So yeah, and.

39:54.12
Bob Pastorella
Um, the the man.

40:06.10
Michael David Wilson
Luck and making your luck in the first part of the episode I mean people know that I would say 2021 and 2022 would a worst years of my life. There were elements of my childhood that weren't great either. But you know I don't believe in at your curses I mean just unfortunately bad shit happens to people sometimes and I mean one of the things that.

40:41.56
Michael David Wilson
I kind of thought during the most difficult period of my adult life was like life never guaranteed to be fair life never guaranteed to be easy that wasn't part of the deal. So I don't see myself as. Cursed like I I think I'm pretty fortunate that like I've made it through some really immensely tough times and now I mean whilst like 2021 and 2022 would have ah worst years of my adult life 2023 was so much. Better 2024 is shaping up to be even better I think that you know we we have peeps and we have traughs and I'm at a good point at the moment and I think I think mindset does help. And I think just putting in the hard work and which obviously that doesn't guarantee success or happiness. But it can contribute towards it. It can give you a better chance of having it and really, it's like.

41:48.26
Kev Harrison
yeah.

41:58.00
Michael David Wilson
Remembering that you cannot control external Factors. You cannot control the behavior of other people but you can control yourself and your reaction to situations and that's kind of what I've been doing and it's been working out. Okay, for me thus far. So yeah, I'm not cursed I I mean it. It'd be kind of cool if there was some supernatural curse story that I could tell you but I've not really had many supernatural experiences at all. In my life. So yeah, but I I find them fascinating I find you know that I just find like the power of Belief fascinating too like I I Love kind of ghost stories and supernatural stories. Even if they they.

42:40.23
Kev Harrison
They take no.

42:55.28
Michael David Wilson
Didn't actually happen in a spirit your world Just the fact that someone believed them like it is is fascinating.

43:00.60
Kev Harrison
Um, yeah, yeah, agreed absolutely.

43:07.60
Michael David Wilson
But talking about fascinating things. Let's talk about your future books and your future projects I mean you were saying before that. This book that you've got based in the Uk that is your most politically charged you're looking to release that before the general election so before kind of autumn this year.

43:35.83
Kev Harrison
I mean I would love to it's it's it's a bit of a race against time because I haven't quite finished it yet. Um, yeah, yeah, and so I'm going to talk very nicely to the publisher when it's finished and say look you know is this one that we could exacerbate.

43:38.17
Michael David Wilson
Um, it it does people like it.

43:52.20
Kev Harrison
In terms of the release schedule I don't know if it's going to happen. But um I just think it would be quite an apt kind of window for it's come out in I mean the other book I mentioned earlier the one that's set in France with the fairies that is actually going through. That process of editing right now. So we're hoping that will be out by June something like that. Maybe.

44:18.13
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, and and so I mean are you looking to kind of put out a couple of books a year is that a schedule that.

44:18.13
Kev Harrison
So that's pretty exciting.

44:30.99
Michael David Wilson
You would be happy with like do you do you have any aims in terms of the frequency in which you want to put books out.

44:37.90
Kev Harrison
I think well I I think what I want to do is I want to avoid the situation I had after below because that kind of came about when I'd been through at the beginning of the show today we were talking about the difference of the the pandemic and kind of the impact I had on my work life balance and it meant that I didn't have anything come out for a. Well for three years basically because below came out in 2021 August and shadow hidden came out last month. So yeah about two and a half years but um I was kind of made very aware ah during especially last year that just not having anything. You come out really can sort of cost you a bit of momentum as a writer because I think a lot of um, ah, let's say like notoriety is that the right word. Not sure. That's the right word but like sort of being in the in the public consciousness as a creator I think is. Dependent on continuing to create I think there are certain people that you know can write back every six years and it will still land and kind of explode and everyone will pay attention. But yeah I am sadly very distant from that level of readership. So I think at my level where I'm kind of still on the lower rungs. Ladder I think it's really important to be consistent about getting books out and just giving people new things to read and I see some my peers like for example, some like ah Adam Hols another british writer who is you know, always getting work out there like you know every.

46:13.73
Kev Harrison
Seven eight months he's got a new book out. Um and you know without scrimping on quality at all. It's always great stuff as well. Um I think that really helps you to kind of be part of the collective consciousness within the genre. So. Not necessarily saying that I want to have a couple books out here. That'll be nice and I've got like what 4 finished manuscripts more or less now but 3 3 and 3 quarters probably um so that seems quite viable but certainly I don't want to have a year without a new release again I think that is a mistake.

46:48.47
Michael David Wilson
yeah yeah I relate to what you're saying because my first two releases in terms of like book length were the girl in the girl in the video in the April of 2020 and then they're watching.

46:57.39
Kev Harrison
They were very close together right.

47:07.20
Michael David Wilson
Ah, Pastorella Halloween Twenty Twenty Yeah yeah, and I mean the the intention was always to put a book out every calendar year kind of minimum. But then as I said before and.

47:09.73
Kev Harrison
I've heard of him.

47:20.69
Kev Harrison
Um, yeah, life happens right.

47:24.52
Michael David Wilson
The next few years were very tough indeed. So then it wasn't until the Halloween of 2023 the house of bad memories came out but I suppose 1 thing that probably helped me was.

47:41.83
Michael David Wilson
Whilst there weren't any writing there. There wasn't any kind of books that came out I mean I was continuously podcasting so I was within the writing communities. So it wasn't like I disappeared it's like well where's Michael David Wilson his i.

47:50.92
Kev Harrison
Um, yeah.

47:59.40
Michael David Wilson
There He is doing the podcast again as he has been doing for over a decade now and so yeah, my my intention is to put out. Yeah a book every calendar year minimum.

48:02.89
Kev Harrison
Yeah, exactly exactly.

48:14.34
Michael David Wilson
If it happens that there's more than there's more. But I think ah a book a year would be great. 2 books a year would probably be better. Um, well I I can tell you that I mean the the novel dad is boy is ready for.

48:20.15
Kev Harrison
Um, and is that something you think it's on for this year have you got a 2024 release scheduled or.

48:33.41
Michael David Wilson
Literary agents and publishers and editors to look at so there's a possibility there and then I am very close to finishing the second draft of what would Wesley do which means that that will be going to beta readers. So.

48:53.35
Michael David Wilson
I Mean the intention is to put out a book every calendar year. But if you don't meet what is essentially an arbitrary intention that has no contracts your ramifications for not meeting it then then.

49:10.33
Kev Harrison
You work around it.

49:10.90
Michael David Wilson
Then so what you know so be it. Yeah, so we we will see what happens I mean that the the state with Daddy's boy at the moment is my film manager ready. He loved it.

49:26.95
Michael David Wilson
He thought it was very difficult to categorize and he's like I absolutely loved this I have no idea how to sell it which is some strange feedback to get and then I have implemented a note that he made. Um. And I think I've made it better for it and now he's looking at it with that implemented and we're probably going to connect in a couple of weeks but yeah based on what he says we'll determine whether we show it to. Like there's a specific literary agent who might be interested in it I will find it very funny if dad is boy is the book that gets me a literary agent because it is the I mean you've both read an early draft of it but it is the most ridiculous.

50:16.67
Kev Harrison
Ah, yay and it says mad as a box of frogs. Yeah.

50:22.31
Bob Pastorella
Ah, but.

50:22.41
Michael David Wilson
Over the top silly extended dick joke of a book and if this is the one that brings me success then it you know like life is funny if I'm cursed then that is a glorious, wonderful cast to have yeah but that is boy isn't it.

50:34.37
Kev Harrison
Indeed you would take that class all day.

50:42.38
Michael David Wilson
Isn't there casa is a gift to the world and very specifically to johnran and so you know, enjoy that gift. But yeah, having having that and having what would Wesley do ready to go I mean I'm very happy to be in this state where there are 2

51:00.13
Michael David Wilson
Book re length works ready to go. So if one of them comes out in 2024 great but if if not then it looks like it'll be a good 2025 anyway I

51:00.65
Kev Harrison
Yeah, saving.

51:10.86
Kev Harrison
Um, for sure. Yeah makes law sense.

51:14.55
Bob Pastorella
Yeah've I've gone. Ah I've gone quite a bit since you mean they're watching to have anything um and and and all that's on me I mean there's no nothing to blame I got into I got into a slump. Ah, didn't write any prose for a year but we wrote a screenplay and so you know me and Michael ah we we we spent a year writing a screenplay so that's you know that totally different beast. Um, and we're probably going to be rewriting that screenplay hopefully pretty soon um. I worked on another screenplay. Um I've I've written a novel since then that I do not like and I'm working on a new project now and I but I do have a book coming out next year I don't know when but I do have a book coming out next year so um

51:56.87
Kev Harrison
Awesome! Can you tell us more about that book or is it still the Hush hush.

52:07.66
Bob Pastorella
I mean it's it's a it's a vampire novel I can't really I'm not gonna I can't I'm not I'm not supposed to say much do have a book coming out next year it is a vampire novel. It is um it is.

52:13.96
Kev Harrison
Okay.

52:23.38
Bob Pastorella
Basically suicide Kings meets fright night. So ah, yeah, if you've ever seen suicide Kings one of my favorite movies. A lot people don't like it but ah, it's um, yeah, there's there's a little bit more to it than that and we're probably going to use it in a marketing but ah.

52:27.64
Kev Harrison
Mokidoki.

52:42.58
Bob Pastorella
My publisher if you hear me talking right now people be like shut up. So yeah, so yeah, we're going. We'll leave it there I don't know when it comes out. Hopefully we'll make an announcement soon I'm really helping to make an announcement soon.

52:47.64
Kev Harrison
We'll we'll leave that there.

52:58.66
Kev Harrison
Um, very good.

52:58.77
Michael David Wilson
But the way you flipped the tables there care of asking questions. It was as if you became the interviewer which brings us to your podcast.

53:12.60
Michael David Wilson
All creatives now. So tell us a little bit about that podcast What it is. You're doing and how that came about.

53:14.41
Kev Harrison
Um, yeah.

53:19.50
Kev Harrison
Yes, so my co-host on all creatives now is ah horror and sci-fi writer Paul Stephenson an all-round excellent bloke and he was talking to me about about a year and a half ago now maybe a bit longer about maybe doing a podcast. Interview format but he kind of pointed to your good self and also um, Neil at talking scared and said look you know these guys have kind of got this interviewing of writers down basically like there isn't a need. For someone to go and interview writers about their books or about whatever specifically. Um so how would you feel about doing something that was more sort of generally geared towards creatives and I thought it was a great idea because like um.

54:16.37
Kev Harrison
I I have found actually even on even on this is horror previously that I've learned quite a bit when you've spoken to people who have perhaps not just been a writer you know perhaps people talking about like doing visual arts or I remember once listening to an episode of writing excuses where they were talking. To someone who was an audiobook narrator and just like learning about like this kind of skills and techniques involved in that and I just thought wow this is actually really fascinating to kind of hear a different creative and their process and how it might yeah, it's surprising how much there is that you can apply to the writing. Ah, life as well. So we did a first sort of half -season we spoke to some writers but we also spoke to some visualized standup comedian musicians and that's the idea. Basically we just speak to different creative people. Find out what inspires them what tools they use what their origin story is um and yeah, we we had a little hiatus because um, paul had Paul loss in his family which was very difficult so we we actually paused for a little while um and then. After some time of sort of thinking about whether he wanted to still do creative stuff. He decided he did so we came back this year and we've done a few episodes. In fact, recently he spoke to sonora taylor Sonora Taylor l be we'll be putting up probably tomorrow actually as we're recording this so it'll probably already be out.

55:49.76
Kev Harrison
And this comes out. We've also spoken to a visual artist guy called um, Paul Holbrook Phillips who's like ah from trucebuilt milk designed who does like these absolutely mad like pencil drawings like um. And and stuff like that it just it's just been really fascinating just like talking to different creatives find out what their processes are and also kind of joining the dots between like what they do with it be it visual arts comedy whatever and how that kind of ties in to the creative endeavors that we are trying to sort of. Perform as well. So yeah I've already enjoyed it.

56:25.79
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, remember with the first season. There was a video show to accompany the audio will you be put in these latest episodes up as video as well or are you just sticking with the audio format.

56:43.80
Kev Harrison
What it's a good question I mean ah we we found that we weren't getting many hits on Youtube and um because I am technically a spoon I cannot do the editing so that's all down to Paul. So um, so he said look you know in terms of his time.

57:01.33
Kev Harrison
It's much more economical for him to just make it an audio package especially because we weren't We were getting far more downloads on audio than we were on video. It just didn't seem worthwhile. So Yeah for the time being at least that is that has been shelved and I mean that is good because people will see my face less often. Which is always a plus.

57:20.75
Michael David Wilson
Well I will make no comment upon that particular matter even if I might make many comments on that matter off forever. This is ah an on air production and I mean you.

57:28.27
Bob Pastorella
Meaning.

57:35.78
Kev Harrison
It's big, professional yeah or something.

57:37.86
Michael David Wilson
well well I would I wouldn't go that far. But I mean you said that Paul was obviously very complimentary about this as horror and Neil Mcrobber of talking scared and yeah.

57:49.16
Kev Harrison
Um.

57:53.45
Michael David Wilson
The thing that I would say that I have said to other people is that if you're thinking about doing a horrfiction show or a writer's interview show if you want to do it then.

57:57.92
Kev Harrison
Um.

58:09.16
Michael David Wilson
I Think you should go for it because I think what makes each show unique is you is your perspective. So Don't think there are already writers shows that I enjoy therefore I'm not going to do it. No, you should do it because just in it being you. That is your unique selling Point. So be you be Authentically you if you want to start a podcast and start a podcast.

58:31.30
Kev Harrison
Sure? yeah, and we we will continue to talk to writers as well. But I think also because Paul also does book cover design. He's quite interested in sort of ah you know visual arts as well. And yeah, we've both been musicians while I was a screamer. Not really a musician but you know at different times speaking to musicians kind of sort of feed something in us as well. So I think this approach has been really enjoyable I'm really yeah, kind of a breath of fresh air almost from like just just seeing something different. You know.

59:02.80
Michael David Wilson
Yeah I mean you and I we have known each other for a long time now getting on getting on for 2 decades if 1 can conceive. Yeah, and of course I think.

59:08.50
Kev Harrison
Um, very long time. Yeah, it's like 17 years there's a lot of crimes that we would have a clickre clean record from like serious crimes in less time than that.

59:23.14
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, yeah, which will speak no further off this is getting into dark territory. But I I mean one of the things probably the primary thing that brought us together was actually heavy metal.

59:30.28
Kev Harrison
Don't have that record. It's fine. Yeah.

59:38.72
Kev Harrison
It was of course yeah heavy metal. Absolutely.

59:42.25
Michael David Wilson
And so I mean do you ever have a desire to get back in to the screaming business. Do you think you might be an abandon of a day that is the.

59:58.83
Michael David Wilson
Million dollar question the older people who probably before this interview didn't even know you were in one before but we're going there very niche audience.

01:00:08.19
Kev Harrison
I would say actually that the thing I miss most in life that I did in the past that I don't do anymore is gigging. Um I mean I think anyone who has had this experience unless it was like horrendous for them I think we probably. Understand what I'm saying. It's just like I think there is nothing really else like just being on stage playing songs for a crowd. It's just like really fun even if the crowd is tiny sometimes you know like it doesn't really matter just like playing songs in front of a crowd, especially if you really love the music. It's just like completely unique. Thing in life. So part of me is like I would love to do it? Um, but um I mean in terms of time. It's just not realistic with with the life that I have now. So it ain't probably ever going to happen. But. The guy who played guitar my band that I was in years ago. Desolation Stew Norman has got a new band which he's been made. He's made with his brother. Um called carlled which is like k double a ld and they've written like 4 songs which they've got out so far like kind of like all singles. But um. He actually wants to take some of my stories to use for like inspiration and maybe have some lyrics and stuff for his for the for the first site album for a couple of the songs. So we're going to work together a' bit beyond that that'll be really fun I might even do some screaming on it who knows.

01:01:36.30
Michael David Wilson
Yeah I love it when there's kind of heavy metal and horror fiction collaborations come together I remember seeing like I can't even remember if it was a few months ago or a year ago because time particularly. Post pandemic as much it could be that as well. I prefer to blame the pandemic. It is in fact, just a reality of becoming older. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:54.82
Kev Harrison
We're getting old mate. We're getting old.

01:02:02.56
Kev Harrison
Um, when you're blaming the pandemic in like 2035 I'll probably have to have a word with you.

01:02:06.99
Bob Pastorella
He Yeah, he'll be all like and and you know that's the because of the pandemic yes and he keeps talking about this fucking pandemic man.

01:02:12.39
Kev Harrison
And the kids will be like what Pandemic What are you talking about grandad.

01:02:13.70
Michael David Wilson
Ah, yeah, yeah But and anyway yeah, there was a band that kind of came about. Inspired by Adam Nevville was the reddening I don't know if you saw them. But yeah I listened to a few of their songs just like they're Metling. It ai n't fucking about. So yeah I love those collaborations and yeah, i.

01:02:29.44
Kev Harrison
Um, ah yes, fantastic. Yeah I saw them. Yeah decent stuff as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

01:02:45.72
Michael David Wilson
I Hope that we get to hear you add in some complementary screams to those drags. So I'm gonna have to check the band out and they de metal. All.

01:02:50.59
Kev Harrison
We're bit very fun. Yeah I do actually have a ah they are kind of like progressive death metal I suppose. Yeah yeah, so bit quite technical quite like some melodic bits but lots of heavy.

01:02:51.34
Bob Pastorella
Yes.

01:02:59.29
Michael David Wilson
Okay, so so something get yeah.

01:02:59.77
Bob Pastorella
All right.

01:03:07.59
Kev Harrison
Crunchy distortion as well. So yeah.

01:03:08.70
Michael David Wilson
There we go that that reminds me I don't know if you noticed on x or Twitter as you like to still call it. You know there was this. It's not really a meanme but just a post going round being like name. Any.

01:03:19.62
Kev Harrison
Um, and.

01:03:26.75
Michael David Wilson
Good albums from the 90 s that were not Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, or Nirvana and it's like we're we're spoilt for choice here I mean carcass artwork at the gate slaughter of the soul like just all amazing kind of yeah, just so much.

01:03:33.46
Kev Harrison
Yes, I was like I'm got time for for all the exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this the somber lane by dissection my God Yeah, just.

01:03:46.39
Michael David Wilson
Good death metal. It's like well I can name many it like might be.

01:03:48.84
Kev Harrison
I could I could probably not sleep for three days because I'll be giving you that many album titles. Yeah, totally totally? Yeah, absolutely.

01:03:53.20
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, exactly exactly and I mean to put you on the spot if you had to name you know free Amazing heavy metal albums of any sub genre.

01:03:53.95
Bob Pastorella
Yeah.

01:04:12.81
Michael David Wilson
Which would they be.

01:04:15.10
Kev Harrison
Bloody yell I mean I think I'd have to put thought of the soul in there just because I still think it is probably 1 of the few albums that I listen to and I think like like this came out today. Everyone would be like holy shit like just as much as they were at the time. Do I mean and that's like 20

01:04:25.90
Michael David Wilson
Yeah. And.

01:04:31.77
Kev Harrison
2 years down the line or 21 years down the line or something absolutely mad. There's still that impactful. Um, so I definitely put that in there another couple I probably go for something more recent. Um.

01:04:48.94
Kev Harrison
It's difficult to say I mean what have I been listening to recently Even it's very difficult to say Um, what about you have you got any that come immediately to mind.

01:04:59.20
Michael David Wilson
I mean the the tudor I mentioned being slaughter of the soul at the gates and heart work by carcass see though those are the 2 that absolutely jump out. Um, it's not.

01:05:02.85
Kev Harrison
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:12.77
Kev Harrison
Um I put maybe maybe 1 of the nickel.

01:05:13.23
Michael David Wilson
Ah, heavy metal album. But if I wanted to throw an absolutely wild card of a good album in I might go for black ribbons by Shooter Jennings with some and a voiceover by Stephen King is just like nothing I've ever really heard before.

01:05:20.47
Kev Harrison
Um I don't know it. You know.

01:05:29.60
Kev Harrison
Um, wall.

01:05:32.15
Kev Harrison
I might go you know with passage by Samaiel as well because it kind of just changed what metal was and that was 96

01:05:32.80
Michael David Wilson
Um, you know I know? Yeah yeah.

01:05:36.54
Bob Pastorella
So.

01:05:40.77
Michael David Wilson
Yeah I mean I know that you're not the biggest tool fan and by not the biggest I don't think you're a fan at all. But I would consider putting one of the first free tool albums in I'd maybe consider putting an early Opeff album in.

01:05:48.88
Kev Harrison
Not ready. Nice.

01:05:56.71
Kev Harrison
Yeah, yeah, sure oh yeah, blackwater park. For example, another album where I think probably there's nothing I would change about it even today.

01:05:59.13
Michael David Wilson
But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know for then a different flavor of.

01:06:12.34
Michael David Wilson
Metal I mean that there's a lot of kind of slayer and Mega deft I think did a hell of a lot for fresh metal. So yeah.

01:06:16.50
Kev Harrison
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah for sure for sure.

01:06:22.65
Bob Pastorella
Yeah I was going to say Mega death peace cells like every every song is the whole album is just incredible. Um.

01:06:26.90
Kev Harrison
Um, yeah, you can't skip it. Basically yeah.

01:06:33.52
Bob Pastorella
No no, you can't and it's like the album that you know, gar gar samelson and um Chris Poland taught Dave misain about jazz and you you can hear it in there. Um.

01:06:43.26
Kev Harrison
Um, is.

01:06:47.90
Bob Pastorella
An Album that doesn't seem to get a whole lot of recognition is ah sabotage. Ah, the dungeons are calling This is like I'm aging myself here, but it's ep. Ah, every song is just fucking. Awesome. It is. It's it is so eighty s that when you hear it you're gonna be.. You're gonna but want to put a Headband on you know I mean you're gonna be like oh man this is total eighty s metal. But yeah and ah.

01:07:09.27
Kev Harrison
Well can be mourning for my hair.

01:07:17.45
Michael David Wilson
And you got the most air out at the lot of us.

01:07:20.55
Kev Harrison
Tree store. Still still pretense.

01:07:22.46
Bob Pastorella
Yeah, no lot. Yeah, but then you know I mean all the albums I Never really got into too much like death metal. Um, ah because I always tend to like you know my.

01:07:38.81
Bob Pastorella
Some of the older bands like ah I know and Mike Michael will appreciate this one but ah sanctuary loved sanctuary. Um, when when I first heard you know their version of white rabbit I was like this this is incredible.

01:07:46.70
Kev Harrison
Um.

01:07:55.66
Bob Pastorella
And then they go right? You know the rest of the album you know battle angels and all that that first album is so fucking good um, and then and I was big fan of nuclear assault too. So yeah, yeah, nuclear assault critical mass.

01:08:06.68
Kev Harrison
Um, ah wow.

01:08:10.74
Bob Pastorella
Like the John Conley Theory when he did a soul album. It's really like I think it's out of print. but but I have it. Yeah, it's just some good. It's just jam. It's like total total jam.

01:08:22.38
Michael David Wilson
And we've given people a hell of a lot of heavy metal recommendations even though you know so yeah, exactly even know you not everyone who listens to this Asarra Podcast is in to heavy metal. But you know we we gave you them free of charge.

01:08:27.76
Kev Harrison
Whether they want them or not.

01:08:37.25
Bob Pastorella
Post.

01:08:39.98
Kev Harrison
Yeah, enjoy or not.

01:08:42.35
Michael David Wilson
But some yeah exactly. But how about you know to kind of round things off. Could you recommend some books to people. Let's say a classic.

01:08:43.42
Bob Pastorella
Yeah, or not.

01:08:49.92
Kev Harrison
Are.

01:08:58.19
Michael David Wilson
A recent release of the last five years and then something that is not horror.

01:09:09.27
Kev Harrison
Bloody yeah, um, okay see me of the the last five years I'm going to go with the um this this is gonna sound really repetitive because I recommended this the other day on Twitter um, and it is David peaks corpse paint. I still think this is one of the most underrated ah horror novels ever written like it just blows my mind that it doesn't have like a million reviews because like I read it and it just like just blew my mind from like chapter one to the end um is very heavy metal related sorry for the.

01:09:29.73
Bob Pastorella
Oh.

01:09:42.26
Michael David Wilson
Yeah I was gonna say you've continued the theme.

01:09:45.23
Kev Harrison
Continuing the theme throw about that. But I absolutely love it. It's amazing, um, something that is not horror I mean I just finished reading today on the flights. Ah, all the sinners bleed by essay Cosby and this was actually my first time reading.

01:09:47.97
Bob Pastorella
Um, whom.

01:10:04.43
Kev Harrison
His work I've got his last 2 novels on Kindle but I just haven't got round to them and this one just pops up in my reading list a few weeks ago and I thought yeah I'm going to go to read this and absolutely bloody. Loved it. Um, definitely treads the very edges of. Horror as much as it is a crime book. There's you can you can see little nods to his ah horror experiences throughout. But yeah, it's it's very much a crime novel. Um and a classic classics are so difficult aren't they.

01:10:39.42
Kev Harrison
Because it's been such a long time I suppose I'd have to go with the one that got me sucked into horror in the first place which was the rats by James Herbert probably just go with that because it's just the one that yeah I read it and then nothing was ever the same again for me.

01:10:54.76
Michael David Wilson
yeah yeah I mean I feel you know being from the u k like there was a certain time where James Herbert was synonymous with horror around Stephen King but like I I don't.

01:11:08.88
Kev Harrison
Absolutely yeah.

01:11:13.71
Michael David Wilson
Think like he's as known in America like he doesn't seem to be mentioned as much. Yeah.

01:11:18.31
Kev Harrison
Maybe a little bit more niche. Yeah and we won't talk about his treatment of women in his books because some in Jesus Christ just life James now. But anyway.

01:11:24.89
Bob Pastorella
Um, yeah.

01:11:30.78
Bob Pastorella
Oh.

01:11:33.13
Michael David Wilson
Okay, I mean it's difficult to know how to respond to. We won't talk about Okay, then we won't and that's that then isn't it Well in terms of something people can do they could.

01:11:44.26
Kev Harrison
Ah, good. Good. Yeah, excellent.

01:11:52.56
Michael David Wilson
Connect with you but where can they connect with you.

01:11:56.77
Kev Harrison
Yes, and you can find me on ah Twitter on Instagram on Blue Sky Social if you just search for Kev Harrison and look for my face you will. Soon find me quite easily um on all of those you can also go to my website which is kevharrisonfiction.com and there you can actually download for free a novelette called warding if you sign up for my newsletter where you'll get monthly recommendations of books and albums and films and Tv series. And just some writing about what I'm doing basically so yeah, I'd love to have more people reach out. Always.

01:12:36.98
Michael David Wilson
And all right, Do you have any final thoughts to leave our listeners with.

01:12:44.79
Kev Harrison
Ah, just to try and be kinder to each other try to ah try to see the similarities rather than the differences with other people as much as you can because I think there's too much. Othering too much demonizing of the other these days and it really gets me down as we talked about in the first part.

01:13:05.87
Michael David Wilson
All right? Thank you so much for chatting with us.

01:13:08.99
Kev Harrison
Thank you so much for having me on guys. It's been a bloody pleasure to chat to you.