Michael David Wilson 0:29
Welcome to This is horror podcast for readers, writers and creators. I'm Michael David Wilson and every episode, alongside my co host, Bob pastorella, we chat with the world's best writers about writing, life lessons, creativity and much more. Now today, we are talking to Joshua Millican, who was perhaps initially known within horror circles for the work that he did with dread central starting in 2016 and then from 2019 through to 2021 he was the editor in chief. Now more recently, you may know Josh through the fiction that he has written his debut novel, deepen and hell came out in 2022 via encyclops Press. And most recently, he put out Teleportasm from shortwave publishing. It is the third book in the excellent killer VHS series. You might also know Joshua because of his movie novelizations, including Forbidden Zone, the novelization of the iconic, the cult classic Richard Elfman movie. And in this conversation, we talk about all of those books. We talk about early life lessons. We get some previously, as far as I understand, undiscussed, unrevealed, Richard Elfman stories, and a lot, lot more. So before any of that a quick advert break.

RJ Bayley 2:32
It was as if the video had unzipped my skin, slunk inside my tapered flesh, and become one with me.

Bob Pastorella 2:40
From the creator of this is horror comes a new nightmare for the digital age. The girl in the video by Michael David Wilson, after a teacher receives a weirdly arousing video, his life descends into paranoia and obsession. More videos follow, each containing information no stranger could possibly know, but who's sending them and what do they want? The answers may destroy everything and everyone he loves. The girl in the video is the ring meets fatal attraction from iPhone generation, available now in paperback, ebook and audio from the host of this is horror podcast. Comes a dark thriller of obsession, paranoia and voyeurism. After relocating to a small coastal town, Brian discovers a hole that gazes into his neighbor's bedroom every night, she dances and he peeps same song, same time, sing wild and mesmerizing dance. But soon, Brian suspects he's not the only one watching. She's not the only one being watched. They're watching is The Wicker Man meets body double with a splash of Suspiria. They're watching by Michael David Wilson and Bob pastorella is available from this is horror.co.uk. Amazon and wherever good books are sold.

Michael David Wilson 3:50
Okay. Here it is. It is Joshua Millican on. This is horror.

Josh, welcome to This is horror.

Joshua Millican 4:04
Thanks for having me, guys. It's a real pleasure and an honor. You guys have all the really big names and indie horror and big names in horror, so you know, I'm really humbled to have made the roster. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 4:18
we are stoked to have you here, and we both recently finished reading Teleportasm, which is definitely going to form some of the discussion today, and I'm excited to talk about it, but before we do, I want to know about your early life lessons growing up, and they don't have to pertain to writing. They don't have to pertain to cannabis culture as that is part of Teleportasm, but they can, if you want.

Joshua Millican 4:49
Yeah, my life lessons well, you know, in terms of creativity, I guess I just always knew that I wanted to be a writer in some way from a. Early age, junior high, even when I started journaling and things like that. And, you know, in terms of, you know, my creative aspirations, you know, I've, I've tried, you know, music, I've been in horror journalism. You know, horror fiction is kind of a new chapter in my life. No pun intended. Got into a horror writing horror fiction two or three years ago with publication of my first novel. And I guess, you know my life lessons or my pearls of wisdom, a lot of times, you just got to go with the flow. There's a lot of pressure these days to know exactly what you want to do and get to the pinnacle of you know, whatever you define as success. But you know, if you just stay true to your your art and your inner voice, and you believe in yourself, a lot of times, things will work out organically. Does that have anything to do with what you were asking?

Michael David Wilson 6:04
It does, yeah. And I mean in terms of writing stories. I mean, as you said, I guess in terms of people knowing you within the genre. They might know you before your fiction with Dread Central, but I want to know, you know, were you writing stories from an early age, or were you more expressing yourself creatively through the bands? Where did the art start for you?

Joshua Millican 6:32
Yeah, you know, thanks for asking, because a lot of people have asked like, Oh, was it? Was it strange for you going from the world of journalism to, you know, the world of creative fiction. And it's actually not. I went to college at UC Santa Cruz, and it's one of the few state, it's one of the few colleges in America that offers creative writing as an undergraduate degree. So, you know, I studied creative writing in college, you know, doing workshops and more assignments, and, you know, straining my brain in more ways than I could possibly imagine. So I actually come from a creative background. You know, I was a creative writer before I was a journalist. And, you know, I went from, you know, writing stories and poetry to writing songs and lyrics for a while, and then when I got into journalism, I found that even though it was nonfiction and even though my my concentration had been on the creative side of writing, I also had a degree in literature, so I knew how to look at a piece of art, a book, a play, A film, you know and understand character arc and symbolism and foreshadowing and themes and things like that that, you know, I found, you know, when I when I became really immersed in in cinema, that I was able to take, you know, my same literature, major brain, and look at A film. And films became books for me for many, many years, and in a lot of ways they still are. So I went from being creative into journalism, and it scratched that same itch, because I was writing all the time, which I loved, and I was celebrating an aspect of, you know, art that I really appreciated. I was passionate about horror, the horror genre. So being able to write about something I was passionate about, if you're writing about something you're passionate about, you're always going to be writing your best work. So it was great. You know, you know, there are definitely journalists who I think are have much more of a profound profession, you know, people who are on the tip of the spear of history as it unfolds, you know, and horror, horror journalism, maybe isn't as noble as that, but I still felt like it was what I was doing was noble, and that I was elevating the films and the work of people, the countless people who stand behind a director And the actors putting out these films really celebrating their accomplishments, and I just love doing that as a journalist. Now, here's the thing though, to bring it around full circle, the years I spent in journalism, maybe like 10 years, really shaped my creative writing, and that the lessons I learned in journalism were cut the fat. You know, not only do you lead with a hook, every sentence should be a hook, because you don't want to give your reader the slightest opportunity to switch channels or to click to another website or something. You really got to keep people engaged. And I think because of my years in journalism, my writing now is really razor sharp.

Michael David Wilson 9:38
Yeah, yeah. I hear what you're saying there. And I think for me, I mean, I started in journalism too. Before writing fiction, I was working for the extreme metal magazine terrorizer, and then I was doing a lot, yeah, man. And then I was doing a lot for scream magazine as well in the UK. And, well, of course, this is horror was born from that passion. But, I mean, I didn't like the creativity. It never really leaves you. If that's what you want to do, then you're going to be doing it. And, I mean, I'm wondering, what were the films or the stories that first attracted you to the horror genre or that kind of made you stand up and like, oh, oh shit. This is something we can do.

Joshua Millican 10:29
Absolutely, you know, in the early, in the mid 2000s back when you know, Netflix was the only streamer, their library was immense. Basically, if something existed in digital form, it was on Netflix, because it was like this great new frontier, and it was much more extensive than it is today, where, you know, you have streaming content, you know, no matter when it was created, spread over five different entities now. So it rekindled my love of horror. And you know, not only did I go back and revisit all the horror films that I had loved growing up, but now I had access to horror films that I never even knew existed, specifically foreign films. You're asking me, What type new French extremity blew my mind. I'm talking about martyrs, that film is just so haunting. And I know that it gets brought up a lot, and people are like, Oh, the most brutal film ever made. And even the director, Pascal lugi, he made some comment about how He's sorry he made the film, you know, and it's like, come on, that film is just as transcendent as it is brutal. You know, it's just as insightful as it is extreme. And you know, a lot of the films from new French extremity frontiers by Xavier Xavier Jean and high tension by Alexander aja. There were a lot of just great films that I just really resonated with me. Because, you know, here's the thing for I love horror movie, and I understand that, you know, mainstream horror, a lot of times there's a happy ending, but for me, sad endings are much more effective. You know, not that I want to be sad, but you know, that's the feeling that really sticks with me, and that's what sticks in my heart it sticks in my mind. And, you know, a lot of horror films the way they end and they end in a happy way, it's really not realistic, because for an experience to truly be a horror experience, it has to be transformative. You know, even if you survive your night with the slasher the ghost, you know, you make it out of the warehouse, your life is never the same again. You know, so even if it's happy because you live, it's sad because of what you endured and because now you're changed forever. So I really loved bleak, daring horror, just you know, things that you know, just through all of the sort of mainstream and especially the American mainstream conventions to the wind. It was like you have no right to expect a happy ending. So, you know, just, you know, take it, take it or leave it. And I was just blown away.

Michael David Wilson 13:12
Yeah, and we can see how that philosophy in terms of characters being transformed and not necessarily having, you know where I'm going, I can see your reaction, you know, with what you've done with Teleportasm. That is, yeah, very literal and figurative in terms of the transformation. But I love because you've got so many different characters, it's like, there are numerous endings. It is not as linear as saying, Well, this is the the end of the story. And it's like, well, which story within the story? What are you talking about here?

Joshua Millican 13:51
Right? Right? If I sold the movie rights, you could, you know, make a film about the the four main characters, or you could make a whole film just about chapter nine. You know? Welcome to tonight. Yeah, you know, there are stories within there, and it's interesting too, because, you know, for the sake of, you know, brevity and continuity and you know, overall quality, there are actually, like, three or four full chapters, edited chapters that we just put aside. So there are other teleportation stories out there that maybe someday we'll release as a chat book or release chapters in a magazine or something. But, yeah, it was great the way I was able to not just tell a story, you know, give an emotional, three act story to these four main characters, but you know, also, I was able to just throw so much against the wall that I was able to really play in an entire universe, as opposed to just a world.

Bob Pastorella 14:50
And had that, like I said in my tweet yesterday, that it had this World War Z kind of esthetic to. It because you had, you had all these stories about the same thing. And I love that kind of stuff, because you get, you get these complete tales that that just, they add to the whole and it was, as soon as I realized that I was, I was like, oh, man, this is, this is my jam, right here, you know, because I like those. It's not really like an What's that? I'm sorry

Joshua Millican 15:24
I was I'm sorry I was saying so glad you liked it, man, really, I appreciate that. Yeah, no

Bob Pastorella 15:28
problem, no problem. Man. Was a great book, but the that it's not really epistatory, I can't never say that word, but you know what I mean? It's more episodic

Joshua Millican 15:40
anthology. Yeah, it's like a pseudo anthology, because, you know, there are chapters that seem to stand alone, but they really don't, because they're informed by the chapters before them, and things that seem random are later revealed to all have been, you know, connected, you know, part of the the completed puzzle. So, yeah, it was a, it was really interesting way to write, for sure.

Bob Pastorella 16:03
Oh, yeah, it had a very mosaic, what they call mosaic novel effect. And I thought that was just really, really cool. You did it. You knocked it out of the park with that.

Joshua Millican 16:13
I think it's how the Martian Chronicles was written. You know, each chapter is kind of a student alone, and you kind of see the big picture when you kind of know all of the perspectives by the end, you know. So, yeah, it's a pseudo anthology, you know. And, yeah, I guess that's how I describe it. It's a novella, a pseudo anthology. You can edit this out, because now I'm kind of rambling. We should do a drinking game of how many times I say, what were we just talking about or something?

Michael David Wilson 16:45
No, I think what you're saying is irrelevant. And I mean, we weren't planning on jumping into Teleportasm early into the conversation, but now that we've hinted at it, we got to do it. So let's just begin with, I mean, the origin story. Where did this idea come from? Yeah, you

Joshua Millican 17:09
know, it's crazy, because Teleportasm is about 30,000 words, but I kid you not, I probably wrote 100,000 words to get to these 30,000 words, and the original idea was much darker, but it still had to do with a friendship. There was like a friend trying to rescue a friend from a technology cult. You know, the way I first pitched it, it was like hell raiser, by way of the Philadelphia Experiment, where this VHS tape was gonna be kind of like the lament configuration and open portals, and it didn't really fit with the vibe of the whole killer VHS series, which, you know, is something that, you know, I'm coming into at part three, you know. So there's an in expectation in terms of the franchise. So, you know, after I had kind of this first draft, I worked closely with Alan last stufka, who's the founder of short wave publishing. And, you know, we kind of went back to the drawing board, and, you know, looked at the elements that worked really well. And, you know, threw a lot of things against the wall. And, you know, one of the things about the first draft of Teleportasm, it was really glum. It was really, you know, not to say that there was no humor in it, but, you know, overall, it was a it was, it was, it was an impressively dark experience by design. And I guess I started thinking about some of the the lightest elements of the first draft and what I could pull over and there were, there were these elements of, you know, friends from college kind of drifting apart, you know, after kind of like the bubble of college ends, you know, the the extension of adolescence that college affords, you know, ends, and now you go into the real world and you're kind of lost, you know. So I just kind of took those elements, friendships, you know, times are changing. And then I took the technology element of this VHS tape that induces teleportation, and thought about ways that I could make it into a story that fit a lot more with the vibe of the killer VHS series as a whole.

Michael David Wilson 19:20
Yeah, and I think the pacing and the various tonal shifts throughout are absolutely masterful. Because, I mean, you definitely caught me off guard a number of times. I mean, when I started the story, the first few chapters, I mean, instantly I was having a great time, but it was, like quite light hearted, almost like a stoner comedy. There was a lot of references to cannabis culture. I thought, yeah, this is a light read. This is dialog heavy. I love it. But then you just ratcheted up the violence and the things that were happening as a. Result of viewing this tape. And actually, I listened to a conversation with you and Rob Olsen on the arc party, and you were talking about, yeah, yeah, we love Robert. This is horror. He's been on the show, and we've collaborated with him a number of times, but you kept referencing chapter nine, and you were doing it before I had read all of the book. And then when I came to chapter eight, I thought, did you two say the wrong chapter? Because chapter eight is very, very violent, in a way that the chapters that followed before that they hinted at it. But you You took it up to 11, and then I got to chapter nine. It's like, oh yeah, you got the chapter right? Yeah? Because it is a tonal shift. It's bleak. It reminded me of Stephen King's to stand in some ways. You know that that chapter alone referenced

Joshua Millican 21:02
Stephen King's the stand is actually referenced in one of the notes that snaps leaves along the way. But, uh, yeah, you're right, you know, in terms of, you know, chapter eight going all the way up to 11. You know, what I was trying to do for the most part, was kind of like up the ante with each chapter, right? So we start with what's kind of like already in the mythology of teleportation, which is getting stuck in walls, you know. So okay, you know, you're stuck in a wall, you know. Where do you go from there? And I was trying to like, you know, each time make it a little more horrific or a little more outlandish. So, yeah, by the time I get to chapter eight, it's kind of like, I really got to go nuts to really, like, you know, give a payoff that is worth, you know, the fact that I've set this scenario a similar scenario three or four times by now, you know, so. But with chapter nine, it's the tonal shift, you know, chapter eight, you know, might very well be sort of like the the graphic climax, although, you know, chapter 12 is pretty gory, as is chapter all of them. But with chapter nine, yeah, I definitely wanted to do a tonal shift, kind of have this, you know, rug pulled out from you, your stomach drops, you know, you're in an airplane that, you know, suddenly drops, or something that. And even though it does go back to sort of the light dialog, I feel like the tone is bleaker from there on out that, you know, it's kind of like, okay, you had your fun, you know, laugh now, cry later, cry now,

Michael David Wilson 22:39
yeah, and I think with chapter nine as well it, it does serve as almost a Twilight Zone episode. But much like the Twilight Zone, it really gets you thinking, what would you do in this scenario, in this new world, if we can say it out? You know, I'm trying not to spoil it, but, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I was thinking about what, what would I do in that situation? I i hope that i wouldn't go the way of many people within the world, but, but what else is there left to do? It really does make you

Joshua Millican 23:24
could you endure that level of isolation? You know? Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 23:28
yeah. I mean, we, all, you know, as writers, can think that we're quite good at solitude, at isolation, but that's a test. It's a big test for real. Did it take something out of you to be able to write that, to get into that emotional space? Because, I mean it, it also it feels heavier to read. And I gotta think, as the writer, you know, you might have had to bleed a little,

Joshua Millican 23:58
yeah, you know? And you know, like I said, Yeah, I don't mind doing teasers. I feel worse about what happened to Frankie than I do about what happened to Ophelia, just because I feel like, even with the name, I kind of hinted that this was going to be a tragic character. But I do feel bad when people have said things like, it was the most depressing thing I ever read, because it's not really my goal to, you know, I'm not trying with Teleportasm to bring you down to the lowest low. And there was another comment that said it was mean spirited, and it was a great review, but I don't know if it was mean spirited. I mean, I wasn't trying to rub your nose in anything. It's just how it unfolded in my mind. And I saw the ending in my mind, I saw, you know, the processional and I was just like, Oh, my God, you know, because, you know, I came up with, I guess you could say, twist number one. And then, just to make it even worse, I was like, wow. And then after this, you look farther down the road, and what do you see? And it's even, it's even worse than what you. Thought before, hopefully, hopefully we're hyping it enough where everyone's gonna buy it and just like, read it like hell, just get up to chapter nine to know what we're talking about.

Michael David Wilson 25:09
I think it's totally worth doing that. And actually, because I had heard you and Rob talk about chapter nine, it almost made it more exciting for me to get to it, like what is gonna happen at this point, please. I guess I can understand why a reader might have found it the most depressing thing they'd ever read, but I don't think it has to be totally depressing. We see what a subset of people have done in that universe when they've discovered it, but we haven't seen what another quantity of people who were more optimistic. So I don't think everyone that goes to that area, let's say, is going to meet that fate.

Joshua Millican 25:56
Yeah, that's another thing that's great about it. You know, any work of art is, you know, I'm proud that I created something that kind of lives on in the reader's imagination and allows you to take it to whatever other steps you want to think about, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 26:12
yeah. And, and in that world, I mean, I think I would be pretty entertained for a number of years, because you can, you can test drive any vehicle, lot of cars and bikes that I want to, I want to have a go on so, you know, there is that at least food, plenty.

Bob Pastorella 26:36
What I liked about it was, it was you had, you had this ramp up, and then you get to this, this, like apocalyptic vision and and being it, the story's told non, you know, non linearly, non, am I, I can't even talk tonight. It might be the flat tire, but

Joshua Millican 26:58
just over zoom,

Bob Pastorella 27:01
but, uh, it and it also shifts in time. But I think that that actually set you up for the dystopia part of it that comes after that, with the cult and everything, and had a very uh, JG, Ballard uh effect to you know, if, to me, if someone was filming this movie, it would probably be, probably, to me, the best director would be Brandon Cronenberg, because he can bring in this, this, that kind of esthetic, and still do with the goopy, you know, body effects, just like his dad could. And I, you know, and I'm thinking David could do a good job, but I think Brandon kind of gets the cult aspect of things a lot better. Yeah,

Joshua Millican 27:45
I think in Brandon and I are more of the same generation. But, you know, the father son, Cronenberg's are, we're definitely influences on Teleportasm. You know, each each entry in the killer VHS series kind of has its own sub genre. The first one, melon head mayhem is like a Creature Feature, you know, specifically of the humongous alive variety, you know, Gremlins or ghoulies or critters. And then you have the second one, which was candy cane kills, which is a Christmas slasher, you know, very popular sub genre of horror, with Teleportasm, you get analog body horror. And, you know, as soon as I say analog body horror, you're thinking of David Cronenberg,

Bob Pastorella 28:27
right? But it also, I saw also this kind of, I guess, this, you know, with the way that they became kind of like mindless zombies, I've seen this Prince of Darkness, John Carpenter aspect to it too. And I was like, this is, this is fucking so cool, man. And I think that you have to pull, you have to have, you have to go through that apocalyptic section to be, to be kind of uplifted a little bit. But then go, oh, wait, this is even fucking worse. It's like how we got here is even fucking worse than that. That's, that's the way I felt, because I would, I would not want to be alive during the latter part of the actual story, you're having to run for your life against a mob of mutants. Basically, yeah,

Joshua Millican 29:24
creatures, creatures, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 29:28
yeah. And so, I mean, tonally, it almost reminded me of Keith rosson's Fever house, in the sense that it's like you're just switching up genres and introducing new elements at any given moment, like there's no predictability, but like, in a really good and a really fun way, and just because there was no predictability, it all was logical. It all was consistent. It was just so intricately woven. And, of course, another way. Another choice that you made was to not tell it necessarily in chronological order. So was that always the way that you envisaged telling the story, or did you kind of have to weave it together and kind of change chapters about in terms of the ordering? Well, yeah, I

Joshua Millican 30:20
like that. I, you know, was popping ahead in the future. But if you notice, by the third act, it does start to line up chronologically. So yeah, it does jump into the future a few times, but by the time you get to, I think, welcome to dead world. Everything after that is chronological. Because the you know, kind of like the story of the you know, the night has already been told, so it does kind of catch up. And I liked that idea. I did like being able to play with it a little, although I did worry about, you know, being a little too complex in terms of, you know, the tone shifts, the one chapter that you know, the publisher, Alan, and, you know, I was also a little concerned about, as well you already mentioned was, was the cult chapter. Because, you know, again, you get a shift there, and it's almost a genre shift. That's the Sci Fi chapter. You know, a lot of times you'll read some reviews and they'll compare teleport tasm to The X Files. Well, they're talking about this specific chapter, you know. Because, you know, basically when Al and I were talking about that, you know, sub story, we were calling it The X Files chapter, you know, it is kind of a another change, and this is in the third act. So, you know, Al and I were both kind of like, okay, we've taken people on quite a ride up until this point. How are they gonna feel about going from, you know, a zombie apocalypse to, you know, CIA, you know, undercover, you know sort of thing. And, you know, I was like, All I can hope is that even if you're you get to that point, you're kind of like, oh, man, why did Josh go here after he was going here and here and here? I hope that what you learn in this X Files chapter, this, you know, kind of a heavier sci fi chapter. I hope that that adds to the feelings at the end. I hope that the payoff might not be in the MO. If you have a problem with that chapter, you know that you will find a payoff in it with the knowledge you've you've gained when you see how all the dominoes do ultimately fall.

Michael David Wilson 32:26
Yeah, I felt that at that point that any chapter could be kind of anything goes. I was already at that point, I'm already on the ride. It's just gonna take me where it takes me. But, yeah, there were a lot of times where I was thinking, how the hell are you going to wrap all this up and make it consistent? But then you did, and I see what you mean about, you know, enjoying sad endings. It's not exactly a feel good end to it, but I think you know that it's not exactly going to be a happy ending. I mean, it's not happy 50% in so, you know, how could it be?

Joshua Millican 33:10
There you go. It's not like I pulled the rug out of an out from under you in that regard, at least. Yeah, yeah, it's bleak. Yeah, it's bleak from the beginning.

Michael David Wilson 33:18
But I mean, one of the more comedic chapters, I think, which chapter forward is boys in the wood. And say, immediately, I'm obviously thinking of Boys in the Hood. And then when I found out about a certain something, it's like, oh, hood. Okay, I see what you did there. You

Joshua Millican 33:41
see what I did there? Yeah, yeah.

Michael David Wilson 33:43
But, I mean, was there ever a kind of concern in terms of trying to get the balance between, I suppose, comedy and horror within the piece as a whole,

Joshua Millican 33:56
absolutely, you know, because, you know, especially in the writing stage, you know, when you're just, you know, throwing everything against the wall. There were there much more extreme, or not, maybe not much more extreme. But there were definitely things that Alan was kind of like, remember, we're trying to, you know, appeal to a wider audience. Hint, hint, you know. And there were things in that chapter that were a lot more extreme, both in terms of the conversation that these kids are having, you know, I don't think it's a spoiler to tell people that we're, we're talking about a chapter that takes place with these kids in junior high, and they're talking about female anatomy and Their lack of understanding of it. And it's, it's cute because it's kind of innocent, but it's also kind of like, super bad. And, you know, I asked that, I absolutely did just take it to ridiculous extremes, not just in chapter four, but there were other chapters where Alan was kind of like, uh. Okay, we see that you can gross us out. Yeah, you're hardcore. Come on, buddy, let's dial it back a couple notches. But you know, you know, ultimately, I'm glad, I'm glad I had someone there reminding me to strike a balance, because I don't think I made anything less horrific by making it, you know, easier to read, and

Michael David Wilson 35:23
you said that Alan was reminding you that you were appealing to a wider audience. I mean, who is the the audience? I suppose that the VHS series and and specifically, teleportasm is going to, you know, hopefully target. Because, I mean, in a very good way, from reading it, I felt like, you guys don't give a shit. You're just telling a great story. You're like, whatever, you know, take it or leave it. So it's interesting to hear these conversations were happening. No, yeah. I mean,

Joshua Millican 36:03
that's totally valid. You know, think again the metaphor I made about, you know, like a film director coming into Part Three or part four. You know, it's not your job to throw everything into left field. You know, you're there to maintain a vibe that's, you know, been established. You honor that and give fans of the series. You know what they're expecting in terms of, who are these fans? You know it's, it's the series has now famously been described as, you know, like goose a modern day goosebumps for adults, and there's your audience right there. You know you want, maybe the exact same people who read goosebumps as their gateway into horror, who now want to be like all right? And, you know, let me read something that's going to put me in that same mood. That said, teleportatism is definitely the most R rated so far of the three killer VHS novels. You know, it's definitely in terms of language, in terms of gore, you know, I think it's one of the few body horror works that shortwave has ever published, actually.

Michael David Wilson 37:10
Yeah. So that's almost a challenge to the people who will follow. It's like, right? This is the most extreme. So,

Joshua Millican 37:18
speaking of what's to follow, great segue for me to just say real quick that some excellent things are following. And soon, in the fall, the next killer VHS book is cicada by Tanya Pell, which has already gotten fantastic early reviews. And then in December, we're getting candy cane kills again, which is the first sequel of the killer VHS series. Brian McCauley is coming back to pick up right where candy cane kills left off, and it's going to be fantastic. Not only that, the next two entries in the killer VHS series have already been announced. One of them is a witchcraft boarding school type horror, and the other one is a Bigfoot horror movie, which I or excuse me, not, horror movie book, Bigfoot horror. But I can't wait for that. So killer VHS is awesome, going all these different sub genres, really talented writers across the board. Not again. I'm just really happy to be on the roster.

Michael David Wilson 38:20
Yeah, who were the two authors for the Bigfoot one? And the was it like, which is at boarding school? Was that how you pitched it?

Joshua Millican 38:30
Thanks for putting me on the spot. Man, really, really appreciate. I'm kidding. You'll have to, you'll have to, you'll have to look it up and add it into the notes. You know, I can tell you that melon head mayhem was written by Alex evanstein. Candy Cane kills and candy cane kills again are Brian McCauley, both incredibly talented authors. Alex has this real knack for writing a creature horror. He does some great dinosaur horror and Brian's first novel, Curse of the Reaper, is a wonderful Hollywood meta horror that scream fans are totally gonna love. So I know my killer VHS authors just not the final Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 39:17
yeah. And in terms of Brian, I mean my understanding is that your friendship precedes actually getting involved, and indeed is the reason that you wanted to be involved in this. So how did you and Brian first connect?

Joshua Millican 39:33
Brian and I were both members of the Los Angeles chapter of the horror Writers Association, and when we both went to our first meetings a few years ago. We were both there as first time novelists. He had just come out with curse of the Reaper, and my book deeper than hell had just been released through encyclopedias. And so we're we instantly, like, hit it off and we're goofing around like, oh, wouldn't it be great if we both got nominated for Stoker award? And best debut novel, you know, and we're the cool kids in LA horror scene, you know, we just instantly clicked. He even joined my horror trivia team for a while. He's now teaching at a university in Arizona, and I miss him dearly. But back to the story, you know, when we were talking and hanging out, I'm like, What are you working on next? And he's like, killer VHS, Candy Cane kills. And I had to earn a killer VHS, you know, because I follow the indie publishing scene on Twitter, I think that's the best place to see who's doing what and what's happening. And I was like, You know what? I would love to get on that series? And he's like, Yeah, pitch to Alan. So I came up with the concept for teleportatism, specifically for killer VHS, and it wouldn't have existed if I hadn't met Brian and then been extra inspired to try to hop on this bandwagon while it was still in the early formative stages. And I'm so glad I did, because, like I said, you know now the next four are already set and, you know, it's just a wonderful project to be a part of. I'm so glad that I was able to get in on this series.

Michael David Wilson 41:09
Yeah, yeah. And, I mean, what was the hardest thing about writing teleportation? I mean, the

Joshua Millican 41:18
hardest thing was also one of the most enjoyable things. You know, normally, a writer writes in solitude. It's a very solitary process. But because this is part of a series, Alan and I decided that we would work, you know, have a closer relationship than most writers and their publishers would have. And, you know, after I turned in my first manuscript, and, you know, got the feedback that, you know, tonally, it wasn't really a match for what had preceded it. You know, maybe I was, I was disappointed for about 30 seconds, but then I was, I was really inspired by the challenge of revisiting this first draft manuscript and really making Alan happy, because I believed in Alan's vision. So in that sense, I was writing for an audience of one, because Alan was the architect. Alan had set the tone. Alan had the vision for what was to proceed it, and I believed in him. So there was a lot of you know, this is working. This isn't working. I was sharing things with him much earlier than I had with my previous publishers. Like, normally I wouldn't share something in a rough stage, but I really wanted to ask Alan his opinion on things before I proceeded in one direction or another, even if I had a question of dialog, you know, I'd hit him up. So that was the most challenging aspect of it, but it was always but it was all rip, but it was also the most satisfying aspect of it, and it's, you know, what I miss, you know now, you know. And I hope that I'll find my next project as satisfying as I did this one, even though I might not just because, you know, it's, it's not the normal relationship I think that an author has with this publisher. You know, I miss kind of checking in with him on the reg and, you know, working through this and really feeling like he and I were becoming of like mind on just about everything. So it was, it was challenging, but being challenged was so rewarding.

Michael David Wilson 43:24
So given how positive the experience was with Alan, are you looking to work together again? Are you kind of eagerly scouring what projects they have on so you can pitch him, or have there been any talks for future collaborations.

Joshua Millican 43:42
If he doesn't already, I assume he knows this already. He can just, you know, send me an email at any moment, and I'll get to work. You know, we've tossed around ideas. Alan is, however, very focused on shortwave as a whole, and I know that, for the time being, the killer VHS series is pretty, pretty well locked down. And I also know that he's looking to highlight female writers, kind of in the next stage of shortwave. He might be putting out fewer books, but concentrate on marketing those in in better ways to position them. And you know, he's just doing so many things with with shortwave. You know, if this was a once in a lifetime experience, I'll always, always treasure it. He could just, but he could just, you know, get into my inbox and I'd be working for him again on the fly.

Michael David Wilson 44:32
And, of course, before Teleportasm. So as you said, before, your debut novel was deeper than hell. Now this came out about 10 years after you started your blog and all the stuff that you were doing with dread Central, I guess about five years after that. So I'm wondering how the debut novel came about. And kind of, what stories had you written prior to it?

Joshua Millican 45:05
That's a great question. You know, I actually wrote deeper than hell while I was a horror blogger and up and coming horror journalist, and when I got the job as well, when I first got promoted to managing editor and then editor in chief of dread Central, I kind of put my own creative endeavors on the shelf. So, you know, deeper than hell sat on a shelf for a few years, actually, while I focused 100% on dread Central, because that was a legacy horror site that was a storied institution that I was proud to be a part of I was in a position of great control and potential influence, and I wanted to make sure that I didn't mess it up. So dread Central had 100% of my attention, 100% of the time. And I stepped away from dread central when my son was born. And you know, then the thought of going back to dread Central on the same capacity was no longer tenable. You know, when you're a parent, you can't give 100% to a career no matter how much you love it. You know, no matter, because working for dread central never felt like work. You know, even if I was working, you know, 60 hour weeks when you love what you do. You never work a day in your life. So, you know, it was awesome, but I wasn't going to have that time commitment anymore, or the desire to be glued to my computer following horror news as it unfolded, you know, keeping up with the trades, things like that. So it was going to be time for me to transition. So that's when I took deeper than hell, off the shelf, dusted it off. And the good thing was that, you know, during the years that had been on a shelf, I had gotten a been able to build my own name and reputation, my own brand, if you will, of horror, cannabis infused horror, if you will, to the point where I think I had enough of a name where a publisher was interested in releasing my debut novel. And what a perfect connection it was to meet the guys in encyclopeds, because they have one foot in literature and one foot in film. About 50% of their operation is novelizations. And you know, in terms of their, you know, original creative output, they publish a lot of filmmakers like Tom Holland, like Peter Atkins, like John Penny. So, you know, on both sides of their operation, you have a strong connection to horror cinema. So, you know, having been Josh from dread central for so many years is just amazing to find myself at encyclops, and they were awesome and wonderfully supportive of deeper than hell. And you know, I think it was a success. It has over 100 ratings on Goodreads, which I think is fantastic for a debut novel, and I think that, um, you know, more people will be reading it now that teleportatism, uh, seems to be bringing more attention to my other works, and I'm really, I'm really proud of it, and I'm glad that I made this shift to, um, writing fiction, writing books. I think, you know, in my heart, it's something I dreamed of as a kid, you know, having my books and signing books and things like that. So it's a real dream come true. And I hope that I can do it for the rest of my life.

Michael David Wilson 48:37
I hope you can do I mean, both for you and selfishly, because I enjoyed the hell out of reading your stories. So I want there to be much more of it. But, you know, I think what you're saying about now that Teleportasm has come out, that deeper than hell will get more attention, it's 100% right? And you know, sometimes I see writers getting upset about the attention or lack of attention that an individual book got, but it's like, but this is just a part of the puzzle. Is like, it only takes one to really blow up, and then your entire back catalog is getting attention. I mean, I think a lot of that must have happened to Paul Tremblay with a head full of ghosts. Because, you know, some people, they think a head full of ghosts is his first book. It's like, no, he wrote a lot of crime novels before then. And yeah, I mean, even Keith Rosson, who we mentioned earlier, like fever house has brought him attention like no other book that he's written. But goodness, how many have he written before that? Like five.

Bob Pastorella 49:50
Yeah, think there's four or five, and then there's a short story collection too. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 49:55
And he's, he's been in this game for a long, long time, so.

Joshua Millican 50:01
Yeah. Well, books are different than films as well. You know, it's like, if you miss your opening weekend, you know, if your opening weekend doesn't hit like you hope that's it, you know. And the whole history of the film is written down to its, you know, eventual release and distribution and everything like that. And that's kind of it. It's left for history aside from that point onward. It's not the same with books they can hit, you know, a few months later they can hit a few years later,

Michael David Wilson 50:27
yeah, yeah. And in terms of the marketing and the promotion, both in terms of getting your name out there as a writer and indeed promoting individual books, what kind of things are you doing?

Joshua Millican 50:44
Well, I mean, the the killer VHS series Pretty much promotes itself, you know, because, you know, you can buy it from Amazon and it will come in an envelope, right? But you order it directly from shortwave, and it comes in this box that looks like an old school VHS tape with the synopsis on the back and everything, you know. And the book looks great. The cover art by Mark volchic is just amazing. And then you've got this box left over that you can hide your weed in and your cartridges, and then, you know, you just put it on a shelf and order the next killer VHS book.

Michael David Wilson 51:20
There you go. We just immediately sold a lot more. It's like you hide your drugs in it.

Joshua Millican 51:28
I joke, but you know, Alan really is a great at what he does. He's an amazing designer. His his marketing skills are top notch. So yeah, you know, we got it to as many book talkers and grammars and tubers as we could. And, you know, hopefully, hopefully the buzz is, is still building, but, but another great aspect of the killer VHS series is, you know, each new release brings attention to every installment that came before it. And this is really a great year for killer VHS. You know, Teleportasm Just hit, and you've got two more to look forward to before 2025 so get on it.

Michael David Wilson 52:15
Yeah, yeah. I think this conversation might have helped us suicide horror Christmas episode as well. You know, I didn't know that there was going to be a sequel to Brian's book. So there you go.

Bob Pastorella 52:31
Already on the charts. Yeah, yeah.

Michael David Wilson 52:36
Well, in terms of cannabis culture, I mean, what do you think of some of the misconceptions. And I mean, if you could indulge us a little bit in terms of, like, different strains for different moods, whether it's like creativity, whether it's relaxing, you know, talk us through it.

Joshua Millican 52:58
I'm really glad you asked, because, you know, the cannabis consumer stereotype has basically been set in stone since Cheech and Chong came on the scene. And I love Cheech and Chong, and they are funny as hell, and they really portray a certain aspect of cannabis smoking to a T. I love those guys, but they really did cannabis a disservice in that respect, because before Chee Cheng, you know, the stereotypical cannabis smoker was a rebel rouser, a college student, you know, you know, leading a protest march, you know, against the war. A cannabis smoker was a Beatnik Poet. A cannabis smoker was a jazz guitarist. Cannabis smoker was a painter. You know, all these great things. So as much as I love Cheech and Chong, you know, I think, you know, they kind of really limited. They gave tunnel vision to the whole idea of what a cannabis consumer is. And I'm really glad that with the fact that at least here in America, sorry California, sorry Bob out in Texas, at least here in California and other states you know where you know they're realizing it has so many medicinal benefits. You might not know it unless you can see what I look like, but I've been a cannabis smoker for quite some time, and in California, specifically, California was the epicenter of the medical marijuana movement, specifically in Northern California, around San Francisco, where, you know, there were hard fought battles convincing politicians to allow people with cancer and AIDS to smoke cannabis, to feel better, to help their appetite, you know. And that was really the crack in the wall, because from there, you know, so many people were just talking about the benefits of cannabis. You know, not everyone is this Cheech and or Chung who just wants to smoke and do nothing and who's just kind of a drain on society. Or, to be fair. A jazz playing rabble rouser either, you know, ordinary people are enjoying cannabis, which goes back to what you were saying about which strain for what cannabis is humongous. Cannabis is almost as big as horror. Let me take the metaphor a step further. It's like saying I don't like horror movies because I saw Friday the 13th once and I didn't like it. Well, just because you don't like Friday 13th doesn't mean that you don't like horror movies, you know, you maybe you just need to see pants labyrinth, you know, or, you know, idle hands, you just haven't seen the right horror movie, because everyone likes horror these days. Come on. Same thing with cannabis. Oh, I smoked cannabis once, and I had a panic attack. You smoked the wrong strain. You smoked a heavy strain of indica when you should have smoked a light strain of sativa. It's basically, you know, one or the other in terms of what do you smoke? Indica is where you're going to get a body high, you're gonna feel it, you know, in your internal organs. You're gonna feel it in your fingertips and your toes, maybe even in your teeth. And it scares some people. Sativa, you might not even know you smoked anything. You're just gonna all of a sudden be having this great conversation, or having these great ideas, or getting, you know, calling someone you haven't talked to in a long time. So cannabis is humongous, and I'm sorry in Texas that, you know, they're just less progressive at this time. And you know, I don't know what it's like for you. Michael, out in Japan, I imagine it's also quite taboo down there. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 56:39
yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, so yeah, I'm so

Joshua Millican 56:43
entrenched in cannabis culture that I forget it's not legal. Other places I went to South by Southwest a few years ago before the pandemic, and I have friends in Austin, so they hooked me up. And then, you know, I'm walking around, and it's like this total festival atmosphere, you know, with all the bands playing and the events happening. So I reached my backpack. I pull out my weed. I started smoking. My friends were like, What are you doing, Josh, you can't do that. It's like, oh yeah, I'm not in California anymore. You know, I'm in I'm in Texas. There are different rules here. So there you go. I

Bob Pastorella 57:16
think it's, I think it's lightning up a little bit. It's still gonna be, probably be years, but we're getting at instead of thinking like 20 years ago, where I was said decades now we're getting into years. And it's, you know, it's, we're just stuck in a conservative rut right now, and it sucks. And there's a lot more I could say on that, but I'm gonna be a nice guy tonight, and there you go.

Joshua Millican 57:47
I'll say it for you. They can all send their hate mail to me. They call me, or I can deal with it Ironically though. You know one of Tommy Chong, I don't know if it's his most recent role, but he had a great part in color out of space not too long ago, where he played kind of like this mystic, and I thought it was a really great way to kind of bring the stoner stereotype to another level. Because I think you're finding now a lot of these old hippie dudes who have been smoking weed for, you know, 50 years, they really do kind of have some sort of connection to the natural order of things to balance, you know, and then you know, you can bring cannabis and cannabis culture. You can mine people that the shaman istic roots of not only cannabis inhalation, but other plants and things like that. And it all becomes very fascinating. And I think it is a source of, if not wisdom, at least genuine knowledge. And

Michael David Wilson 58:45
you're absolutely right that, you know, initially, cannabis sculpture, cannabis smoking, was very much associated with the jazz musicians, with the beat poets, with people like Allen Ginsberg and William Burroughs. And then, yeah, that there was somewhat of a dip with the stoner stereotype. But I do feel that it is now kind of coming full circle and and not just with cannabis, but I think perhaps some time ago, there was ignorance that is like, oh, all drugs are the same, and it's like, no, no, they ain't that is why there are different classifications. You know, if you smoke a joint or you inject up some strong heroin, you're gonna have a bit of a different effect there. And so,

Joshua Millican 59:39
I don't know if you know, you know, having not been, you know, born and raised in America, but it actually was in the same category as crack cocaine and heroin. Until very recently, the FDA, you know, which sets these standards in America, absolutely was telling everyone, until very, very recently. Recently, I think maybe even 2024 it remained in the exact same category as heroin and crack cocaine.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:08
Okay, yes, changed. I,

Michael David Wilson 1:00:12
I am hearing this for the first time, and I can't believe that nobody's told me that, because in in the UK, you know, even from my childhood, like, heroin was Class A, marijuana was Class C. I did not know that in America, they were both class A. What? It's

Joshua Millican 1:00:33
ridiculous, and I think that's why, you know, there's such an era, an aura of distrust between a lot of cannabis users and the government, because, you know, you can't tell a cannabis user that that they're doing something to their body that's as bad as shooting smack. You just can't do that, and you can't say that. You know, you can't tell a cannabis user that they're addicted, that they're just as bad as somebody who's given their life to crack cocaine. It's like telling me that the sky is is purple, you know when it's clearly blue, and it's just nuts, but Yeah, can you believe it that until just recently, even though, even though that it's been legalized in some states, and even though you've got, you know, Sanjay Gupta on CNN talking about the benefits of cannabis and how he's changed his official stance, it still was, technically, on the federal level, the same kind of drug as heroin, until very, very recently. Yeah,

Bob Pastorella 1:01:30
and it reminds me of something that was said probably, and I can't remember if it was either George Carlin or Bill Hicks who said it. And I believe it was Bill Hicks is that the two most dangerous drugs in the world are tobacco and alcohol, and if you can buy them, and the reason that you can buy them is because they can fucking tax it. He goes, as soon as they figure out a way to tax marijuana, it will be illegal.

Joshua Millican 1:02:03
They have Bob, and that's why

Bob Pastorella 1:02:06
it's a state. That's what comes up to it's based on states.

Joshua Millican 1:02:11
When everyone saw that Calif, Colorado raised billions with a B for their roads, for their schools, for their infrastructure, off a cannabis tax billions that simply would not have existed that part of a black, black market that would have been happening anyway. Of course, other states are jumping on it now, and it's funny. It's like states, unfortunately, like Texas, they're really just being obstinate about it at this point, you know, oh, we

Bob Pastorella 1:02:41
still have ignorant folks who's like, well, people have OD on marijuana. I've seen it on TV. They Oded and died on the marijuana, but the boy jump off a whole building. That's like, you think he died because he might have jumped off the fucking building? Yeah, I don't think he might have had some issues, and it's really sad, but I don't think marijuana killed him, because no one's ever died from marijuana, yeah, sorry, you know.

Joshua Millican 1:03:06
And, you know, just bringing it back to Teleportasm, you know, that was kind of like the idea of, you know, taking it from something kind of, uh, benign, like marijuana, to something, you know, more extreme and possibly dangerous, because there absolutely is an addiction metaphor to Teleportasm, that kind of like is, is born out of this, you know, cannabis, cannabis culture community,

Bob Pastorella 1:03:36
yeah, and I can't, I don't know, I guess it kind of rang that that, you know, they, they don't want to legalize it, because it's a gateway, right? It's a gateway to to getting to getting high. So in there is that metaphor going through, you know, Teleportasm that, you know, hey, this is the gateway. But I also, I also see in it sarcastically, and I'm stealing from another comic, but I think that that marijuana, cannabis is a gateway to, like, pizza. It doesn't. It's not, it's not gonna, it's not gonna be a gateway to another drug. It's a gateway to fuck them. I'm fucking I got, man, I need to eat something. Man, I like that. I'm very relaxed, and I'd like a pizza right now, you know?

Joshua Millican 1:04:19
Yeah.

Michael David Wilson 1:04:20
So everything we're talking about here, it reminded me of the case in the UK, about what, 15 years or so ago now, with Professor David Nutt, who was the government's chief drug advisor, and he was commissioned to write a paper on how dangerous each drug is, and then they fired him because he claimed that ecstasy and LSD and cannabis and many other illegal drugs were less dangerous than alcohol. They fired him because he came up with the conclusion. Vision that they didn't want.

Joshua Millican 1:05:02
I don't doubt it. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 1:05:05
but yeah, in in Japan, I mean, yeah, there's a very ignorant and a very kind of all drugs are bad attitude, kind of similar to the put cannabis in the class A as they did in America. I still can't believe that that happened, and I also can't believe, how have I just found out in 2024 How have I lived my life without knowing that it was not, in fact, a Class C, but I think that I mean Japan, yeah, it's a lot slower than the West. But in

Joshua Millican 1:05:45
the Philippines, cannabis users are being given capital punishment, yeah? I mean, it's, it's absolutely wild, yeah.

Michael David Wilson 1:05:56
But in Japan, I mean, there's certain CBD oils that are now legally allowed to be sold. So that gives me hope that it's like, okay, it's a small step, but it's a step in the right direction. Hopefully they can take enough steps where it's legal before I'm dead, but I honestly don't know if that will actually happen. To be honest. I won't be putting any bets on that. Speaking of

Joshua Millican 1:06:26
CBD oil, I'm enjoying a little as we speak. Helps keep my my neurons firing, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 1:06:35
yeah. And the thing is, as well, I mean, I am predisposed to arthritis, and I kind of keep it in check through dietary means. But if they could make, you know, more CBD available, so there was more variety, and they could make it more affordable, because, unfortunately, the stuff that is available is very, very expensive and not as effective, then it would make a genuine difference on my life and would help with chronic pain, but I haven't found a way to tax it sufficiently yet. So never mind for you, yeah, yeah, you

Bob Pastorella 1:07:22
can get it like my me and my mom both have glaucoma, and she has a lot worse than me. And from what I understand, that we can, you know, get it with, you know, a doctor's order, you know. And I found out about that, you know, she said, I can go get marijuana anytime I want to, and just getting damn doctor. And I'm like, Well, why don't you? You know? And she's like, What? Because it's illegal. I'm like, well, you're voting for the wrong people, Mom, let's it's not illegal if you can get it. And then they tell me, I could get it too. But I've talked to people who have, who have gone through that program, and they're like, you don't want to do that. It's not it's not same thing. I'm like, What do you mean? It's like, just, trust me, been there, done that, not doing it again. It's not worth it. So I'm like, well, that sucks. Well, there's this, I guess it's like, it's, it's like, marijuana from the government. Here you go,

Joshua Millican 1:08:16
yeah. Well, you know, those were concerns, you know, like I said, you know, having seen the medical marijuana movement from the very beginning, people were worried that, you know, asking a doctor for a medical marijuana prescription meant that you were going to end up on a government list, you know, and that's a genuine fear. So it's so much easier to just legalize it, especially in light of the fact that there's all this compelling evidence that it's wonderful for chronic pain and creativity and it's a very versatile, versatile product? Yeah.

Bob Pastorella 1:08:51
I think what he was getting at was that the amount that you receive and the quality of the product was not what you would expect. Hmm, interesting. So I was like, Okay. I said, Well, no, they have, you know, like you were talking about different, strange marijuana, but I didn't know. He says, Well, he says, that's, it's, it's pretty bunk, you know. So I'm like, in California,

Joshua Millican 1:09:13
when you go to your dispensary and you look at the product they have, it tells you what percentage of THC is in your flour or your oil or your edible so, you know what's in there? I mean, they've figured it out. You know that they can measure these things. And if you want something strong, you get something that's 28 to 33% THC. If you want something Mila, you have something that's a 11 to 23% THC, so, you know, I don't know how they're running things in Texas, but come on, come on out to California. Because you don't even need a card or anything. You just have to be over 21 and, yeah, no need to go all the way to Amsterdam any longer.

Michael David Wilson 1:09:59
Yeah, put. Point that I was gonna make about 10 minutes ago, because we completely segued into different directions, and I also forgot my point was that, like, I think as well, I have hope for there being general acceptance, because there's also, like, a massive movement of people getting into psilocybin and hallucinogenics, and just looking at how that can expand both creativity and almost kind of consciousness and understanding of the world people not just using it creatively, but to help unpack trauma. So I think that movement is, is showing at least this shift, that at the very least people do not any longer think all drugs are created equally. Which? Which is as absurd as saying all alcohol is created equally? It's like, well, yeah,

Joshua Millican 1:10:58
all horror books are created equal

Michael David Wilson 1:11:01
Exactly, yeah, yeah. Thank you for listening to Joshua Millican on this is horror. Next episode, we will have the second and final part with Yosh Millican. But if you want to get that and every other episode ahead of the crowd become our patreon@patreon.com forward slash. This is horror. Not only do you get early access to each and every episode, but you can submit questions to all the people that we chat with on this is horror. Got a lot of great ones coming up very soon. We'll be talking to Sandy King carpenter of Storm King comics, also the wife of John Carpenter. So a lot of excellent comic collaborations from storm kings. We'll also have Jason pargan returning to the show soon, we will be talking to Nat Cassidy, LP Hernandez. Next year, we're looking to have a conversation with Ali millinenko, whose name I hope I have pronounced right, but sometimes I don't, so apologies if I've got that one wrong. It's a lot of great episodes coming up, and a lot of good reasons to be a patron. So head to patreon.com, forward slash. This is horror, and if it's a good fit for you, I would love to see you there. Okay, before I wrap up, a quick advert break

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From the creator of this is horror comes a new nightmare for the digital age. The girl in the video by Michael David Wilson, after a teacher receives a weirdly arousing video, his life descends in a paranoia and obsession. More videos follow, each containing information no stranger could possibly know, but who's sending them and what do they want? The answers may destroy everything and everyone he loves. The girl in the video is the ring meets fatal attraction for the iPhone generation, available now in paperback, ebook and audio. Another

Michael David Wilson 1:13:58
way you can support the podcast is to leave a review on Apple podcast. We got a recent one on the US store from mandirin AB, which I read out last episode. But we always welcome more. We love your feedback. We like hearing what your favorite episodes are. What you like about this is horror, perhaps what you don't like, who you want to hear on the show in the future. So if you do have the time, leave us a review, drop us a few stars on Apple podcast, and really appreciate it. Well, that about does it for another episode of This is horror. I'll see you next time for part two with Joshua Millican, but until then, take care of yourselves. Be good to one another. Read horror. Keep on writing and have a great. Great Day.