TIH 585: Thersa Matsuura on The Book of Japanese Folklore, the Uncanny Japan Podcast, and Living in Japan

00:02.93
michaeldavidwilson
Thersa, welcome to This Is Horror.

00:06.25
Thersa Matsuura
Thank you so much for inviting me. Happy to be here.

00:09.81
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you here, and it is a rarity for me to be talking to somebody else in Japan. So we didn't have to do the whole time zone dance, which is often what we're doing on This Is Horror.

00:25.66
Thersa Matsuura
Yes, yes, a rarity for me, too. Actually, this is the first time I think, so it was nice.

00:31.58
michaeldavidwilson
and I mean, to begin with, if I want to go all the way back to your childhood because I understand that you were living in America, but you moved around a lot to various different locations. So I'm wondering what that was like for you and what perhaps some of the early life lessons were that you learned during those formative years.

00:59.97
Thersa Matsuura
So yes, born in Texas, I think I was six months when we moved, my dad was in the Air Force. So we we shot up to Alaska for a while, a couple years there, then went down to the South, South Carolina, Alabama, Florida, went to the Midwest, and only child,

01:19.70
Thersa Matsuura
So I learned very quickly to, I guess, to adapt, like to, to you know, you're going from one place to another and and grades weren't as important to me as just trying to make friends. So. So that's, I think, what also kind of made it easy to come to Japan and fit in here because I'm just used to, I don't know, not being a chameleon, but yeah, like my own identity is like in there somewhere, but I can kind of adapt to what's around me.

01:53.50
michaeldavidwilson
And in terms of, you know, not staying in the same place for too long, what was the place during your childhood, I suppose, where you stayed the longest?

02:04.75
Thersa Matsuura
um Alaska was five years, so, and then I think Alabama was also five years. So, yeah, it was, um kind of, there's another thing, just bringing it back to Japan, is like in Alaska you have the mountains and everything, and then we went to Florida or Alabama, and then you have the ocean. So it's kind of like I have both here, so it's like my whole childhood and whatever, university, all the different places I lived, and it's kind of like this little microcosm of where I am now. I've got the mountains right here, and I turn over here, and I have the ocean right here, and I'm like, oh, this is comfortable. It feels like I've been here before, and yeah, so that's,

02:50.29
Thersa Matsuura
Nice about being here.

02:53.03
michaeldavidwilson
and So I wonder too, I mean people who are familiar with your work of course know that you have, well to say a big interest in folklore would be understating it, so I'm wondering was that something that came about from an early age and I mean also what were your first experiences in terms of genre, whether that be through stories or movies or whatever facet of entertainment.

03:24.53
Thersa Matsuura
It's funny, one of my, I would say like my earliest memory would be in Alaska and I had to have been a toddler and in the basement, my mom had the TV on and she was watching some movie and I think I found It was either an old black and white version of Poe's, a telltale heart or something, but I just remember something about the floor. That's all, I'm just a child and I'm watching this. And someone's really upset about the floor. And my mom's like, she's she's scared and I'm scared. And I was like, oh, I don't know what this is. So that's kind of like a very formative memory of mine of just this offness, like something's going on that's not right. And then,

04:07.29
Thersa Matsuura
ah With folklore I read a lot I guess because again only child moving all the time. It's really hard to make friends ah Kind of I guess I was a goofy little kid. So just read a bunch we my mom when she was young she was she grew up in Mississippi and she Got the polio shot and she was actually in a classroom where everyone in the classroom got polio like they woke up the next day and like no kid is really I traumatic. Poor mom. So she, that hurts mom, she's in an iron lung for three years, but um her parents and I guess friends would bring her comics. So the old, ah this horror, like the originals comic, she's had

04:53.86
Thersa Matsuura
hundreds of these these originals. And so we go to Mississippi. I'm all by myself. There's no one to play with. So I just open up the cabinet and I just sit there, you know, on the on the recliner and just read these. So that kind of got me in the mood there, too. And it wasn't really hard folklore until I think I came to Japan and learned about yokai and stuff. And then I was like, OK, this is different. But um the horror thing I've always been putting my toe in, I would say.

05:26.54
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah, and I think Edgar Allan Poe is a tremendous entry point. I mean, that that's going to get you hooked from the off.

05:34.71
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah, even now, it's kind of like my fall reading. um There was ah there's a period of my like, like, what, 10 years where the weather would start to cool off and I just get out my my tome and just read very slowly under a tree and it's like okay this is this is this is a story so yes

05:56.51
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah, I don't know if people outside the genre would agree, but I think this will resonate for people who love horror, but I definitely find Poe a comfort read. It's like very reassuring, something very inviting.

06:12.76
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah, ah there's so much going on and every time, yeah, you just read and you reread and it's just like, there's more and more to find.

06:22.16
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah and Poe himself is such a a fascinating and unfortunately tragic figure as well and goodness there's there's something so sad about the fact that he will never know the impact that he made on the world.

06:22.27
Thersa Matsuura
Absolutely.

06:36.37
Thersa Matsuura
Yes. It's still making exactly. I had a friend that just mentioned there is a new book about him that's supposed to be really good, and I couldn't remember the name of it, and then I went and I kind of researched, you know, biography, oh, and it's like, oh my gosh, there's so many. I don't know which one to start with. So, yeah, I'm kind of looking for that. I need to find out.

06:59.82
michaeldavidwilson
Well, I know that Bob will be able to tell what I'm about to say, but that there's a really good book called Po for your problems.

07:02.61
Thersa Matsuura
Cool.

07:08.53
michaeldavidwilson
And we spoke to you the author of that book, Catherine Barb Maguera, is it Bob? I don't know.

07:19.04
michaeldavidwilson
My pronunciation normally is terrible, but

07:21.83
Bob Pastorella
Yeah, that's, yeah, that's, that's right. And that's, it's a, it's an interesting book because it goes through his life.

07:25.08
michaeldavidwilson
like

07:33.81
Bob Pastorella
And basically is he's a, you know, a tragic figure, but at the same time, he was a bad-ass and he, and he, he gave, he, he didn't care about nothing other than his, his loves.

07:52.77
Bob Pastorella
You know, and, and, but when it came to other people, especially criticism, um, he, he forged a hit anyway. And so it's, it's a book about how you can take this, these common misconceptions that people have with Poe because of the type of personality that his image portrays compared to the monumental things that he did.

08:11.07
Thersa Matsuura
Mm hmm.

08:19.41
Bob Pastorella
And you apply that to your own life. And so it's a really, really good book and it digs into a lot of the history that that you that you won't find.

08:32.90
Bob Pastorella
I mean, you'd have to probably read a couple of of actual, you know, critical biographies to get the type of information that that she that she got.

08:38.38
Thersa Matsuura
Oh wow.

08:42.83
Bob Pastorella
And it's just a really, really good book.

08:43.20
Thersa Matsuura
Oh. Okay, I'm getting that as soon as we go. I've got it written down.

08:50.46
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah I think the unique selling point or what really sets it apart from every other Poe book is that I mean in a way it's part Poe's life story but in another way it's kind of a pseudo self-help book or a kind of not what to do and there's philosophy and almost an esoteric quality to it so it it really is a unique book so

09:17.82
Thersa Matsuura
What a brilliant idea, too.

09:17.96
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah, you'll have to let us know how you get on with it.

09:19.85
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, my gosh. And I'm looking for something new to read. So yeah, I think this is. Thank you very much, Catherine.

09:26.84
Bob Pastorella
Yeah.

09:30.34
michaeldavidwilson
And so I'm wondering too, I mean, obviously you were ingrained in genre, particularly through comics, but were you writing your own stories at that point where you dabbling creatively with art, was being a writer or a creative a concern from a young age?

09:54.68
Thersa Matsuura
um I remember, I don't know the date, but the day that I decided I'm going to be a writer was I, we had friends of the family for a long time at the end of the Air Force and we kind of moved in the same, the same basis and everything and grew up with them again. Since I'm an only child, they were kind of like my, my siblings and one of the older boys, six years older than me. So he's always ahead of me in everything.

10:17.81
Thersa Matsuura
And he sat me down one day on his bunk bed. He goes, I got this new book. You have to read this part. I'm nine years old. It's The Shining. It's the bathroom scene. And I'm out. like great My mom would call him and say, you have to make her sleep. She will not sleep. like She just screams all night long since I couldn't.

10:40.02
Thersa Matsuura
and went back to his place, or whatever, they had a party or something. I went back, and I'm just like, whoa, you know I need to read more of his book and everything. So he shows me my reading. And then he also said, um you know why don't you just write? you know You can write stories like this. Just try. Here's ah here's an old typewriter I have laying around, laying around. Here you go. And write your own stories. And it hit me like, OK.

11:02.06
Thersa Matsuura
when I get older, like maybe I could write something that makes someone feel like I feel when I read him, when I read King. So um yeah, and i and I was probably 10 years old. I was in a Catholic school, so this was fun. And I wrote a story about, this is so, um what's the word? Creative, ah a doll that like floats in your window And I thought it was the scariest thing ever. And I remember going in and telling my teacher I was writing a book, and she was like, oh, that's so great. Oh, everybody, Terry, she's writing a book. And let's read pieces of it. And I'm like, OK, OK, so here you go. And it started off, I guess, you know whatever, enough. And then yeah she got to the part where.

11:45.15
Thersa Matsuura
And then there was a doll, that you know, blood dripping, to whatever. And she's right in the shell. Okay, enough of this. Put it on my desk and never read it again. But I didn't give up much like Poe. I kept going. But yeah, so that's kind of when I decided, all right, all right, I want to give this a try. It's writing things.

12:06.36
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah. and Sometimes from people outside the genre, it's like, you'll say, I'm a writer. And it's like, Oh, and it's like, I write horror. Ah, okay.

12:15.84
Thersa Matsuura
a Wait a minute.

12:20.01
michaeldavidwilson
But, you know, I mean, Bob and I have had this come up so many times. It's like, actually, if the people who say that they don't like horror, look at what they actually do like.

12:32.54
michaeldavidwilson
and they take a wider definition, they'll probably find that they like horror because there is horror in the vast majority of literature and stories. And I would say, you know, that horror, it ignites conflict, it ignites storytelling. So if you insert horror into your stories, they're going to be better.

12:55.45
Thersa Matsuura
Yes, absolutely. I was just thinking, know you know, one of my favorite writers is Kurt Vonnegut. And people would say, oh, science fiction, but oh, hell no, there's horror.

13:01.68
michaeldavidwilson
So good.

13:03.85
Thersa Matsuura
And they'd be like, oh, there are scenes in the Sirens of the Titans that's like, that is just awful. It is brutal. And then he does humor with it, which is just, that's how I really, humor and horror together is just so few people can do that.

13:19.96
Thersa Matsuura
And it's so beautiful. So, but you're right, it's everywhere. Picking your movie. but I'll show you where the horror is.

13:26.69
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah, yeah, Kurt Vonnegut. was a genius there's no other way to put it and such a unique voice if somebody's like what genre is Kurt Vonnegut is like um he he is he is the genre that is the genre

13:44.60
Thersa Matsuura
Yes, yes. Yeah, that voice.

13:49.42
Bob Pastorella
Yeah, there's a old movie called back to school and it's a Roddy Dangerfield movie. I don't know if you've ever seen it and I know that you've seen it. Yeah, Michael may not have seen it. Well, Roddy Dangerfield's ah ah character has to go back to school. Uh, I can't remember why, but he has to go back to school and he doesn't do any of the assignments. Of course he's a rich guy. He can buy after he buys.

14:19.02
Bob Pastorella
Kurt Vonnegut to write an essay about Kurt. And Kurt actually shows up and brings him the essay and it's actually Vonnegut. And he makes a C or something like that on the essay that Kurt wrote about himself.

14:33.13
Bob Pastorella
And I was like, you know, that's actually probably pretty accurate. And that Kurt would actually get a C on his own writing about himself.

14:41.15
Thersa Matsuura
but

14:44.07
Bob Pastorella
I need to get i get a C, you know,

14:46.24
Thersa Matsuura
And the teacher's like, you don't know Kurt. And Kurt's just sitting there like, you don't know Vonnegut.

14:49.87
Bob Pastorella
And Kurt's probably like going, I don't even know me.

14:51.08
Thersa Matsuura
What is it?

14:52.03
Bob Pastorella
What are you talking about? But it's, it's hilarious. And people who don't know when you're watching that movie, they think that's just some actor who shows up at his door with the essay.

14:56.40
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah.

15:03.96
Bob Pastorella
And I'm watching the movie going, that's really Kirk Vonnegut. And my friend's like, who the hell's that? And I'm like, but these are the same people's like, I don't like horror, but I like Stephen King.

15:08.40
Thersa Matsuura
Oh my god. Sit down. Ah.

15:16.81
Bob Pastorella
All right.

15:18.44
Thersa Matsuura
What is going on?

15:19.69
michaeldavidwilson
How has this movie eluded me that you're talking about, Bob? Is this a full-length movie?

15:25.91
Bob Pastorella
Yes, it's a full length movie. And the reason why it's alluded to is because other than a few key scenes, it's not very good. ah

15:34.79
Thersa Matsuura
I think I've only seen that scene.

15:35.49
Bob Pastorella
it's Yeah, it's I mean, that and the other scene that I really, really like is when he when he does the dive. When he, when he nails the the triple thing that, that no one else could do, but him, you know, um, it's just, it's, but other than that, it's, it's Keith gardens in it is before right, probably right before Keith got into directing. So I think maybe Keith had like maybe a couple of other movies after that, the done, this is definitely after Christine.

16:11.46
Bob Pastorella
Um, and Keith's a fantastic director. He's, he's still in the business. He just doesn't, uh, act very often. So, but he, uh, I think he had a horror movie come out a couple of years ago that he directed and had to look it up and see.

16:26.59
Thersa Matsuura
Oh.

16:26.80
Bob Pastorella
Um, so he's trying to, you know, he's, he's still in the business, but, uh, other than that, I mean, you' you're not really missing anything. You can probably see the Vonnegut scene on YouTube.

16:37.07
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah, I think you can.

16:37.58
Bob Pastorella
Yeah. Oh. Sam kennison's in it. That's the other, uh, yeah.

16:42.33
Thersa Matsuura
Yes, yes. I do remember that.

16:44.43
Bob Pastorella
And, uh, and Sam, uh, loses his temper in the class and tears up the desk and screams at everybody.

16:45.51
Thersa Matsuura
Great 80s.

16:50.11
Bob Pastorella
And it's, and, uh, Dangerfield says something about, you know, if, well, if Johnson wouldn't have done that, you know, and he's like, I of like you, you know, I think you're going to make it, you know, so you don't have to see it.

16:58.64
Thersa Matsuura
the basic

17:03.65
Bob Pastorella
It's, I can't, I'm not going to scream like, like he does, but he does the classic Sam kennison stuff in there.

17:12.07
michaeldavidwilson
all right well we'll put that in the show notes for anyone else who is intrigued but we're gonna take a hard turn towards Japan now you know from Vonnegut to Japan it's not always the route but that's where we're going so I mean you first went to Japan I believe in 1990 so what

17:18.25
Bob Pastorella
Man.

17:19.15
Thersa Matsuura
ah Ooh. Ooh.

17:39.38
michaeldavidwilson
experience or knowledge of Japan did you have prior to going, and why did you decide to go to Japan?

17:48.63
Thersa Matsuura
So it probably started with the whole Catholic school thing. um I always, even when I was in first grade, so very young, had a problem with just No, not no offense to anybody who's Catholic or anything, raised Catholic. But I just had questions and I was always asking these questions and I was never getting these answers. And just religion bothered me, or at least what I was in was bothering me. So it kind of made me kind of look at other things. So I kind of got, I got a junior high, high school, I got into Taoism.

18:21.72
Thersa Matsuura
Wicca and Hinduism even, Buddhism, and so I was just kind of studying all these different things. So from there, Wicca went to a, it was called the Circle in Wisconsin, and it was this like week or month-long thing where you go with, it was really cool, and you go camping and you do all this sort of neat stuff, but woke up one morning and there was a couple doing tai chi, like on this little hill and the sun's coming up behind them.

18:45.73
Thersa Matsuura
I don't know what that is, but I want to learn what that is. Okay, okay. Mental note, whatever this thing is, ask them, oh, this is tai chi. I don't know if they were good or not, but whatever, it looked cool. So when I get back home, I look for a martial arts school. There happens to be one that's teaching it. So go there, start studying martial arts. I'm like, this is kind of cool too. All this kung fu, it's Chinese, but that's fine. I mean, that's what I wanted. I didn't know anything about Japan at the time, I don't think. And started learning Chinese, fell in love with the characters.

19:13.02
Thersa Matsuura
couldn't pronounce anything, couldn't understand anything, but I did love the the the Chinese characters, the kanji, ah Japanese, and it kind of, from martial arts, I kind of, I was going into all the movies, I was into Jackie Chan, and it just kind of all overlapped and everything. ah Did go to China for a while in university, just to see what it was like, but where I went was kind of, you know, I was like,

19:40.81
Thersa Matsuura
dogs in the window for dinner and stuff. And I was like, oh, I can't live here. But I wanted to live overseas. like I did get that. I got the the whatever the the the excitement to like study overseas and not be in America to move again and go somewhere totally new and learn a new language and get into this new culture. But yeah China was a little hard for me. So I was my senior year in university. I'm wandering around the halls. I'm going to see my like my guidance teacher or whatever.

20:08.33
Thersa Matsuura
And as I'm walking in the door, there was a poster, like, you know, Japan, one year's full, bright scholarship, whatever. And I'm like, hey. so like doesn't Don't Japanese use those same cool characters that I like so much? So I asked about that. I started studying a little bit, and it fit. like I was able to speak it. I was able to understand it. I was like, this is nice. And yeah, so I applied for that and came over. And then I was, again, like doing a little kindo at the university. So the martial arts kind of overlapped, too. And just ended up staying. I went back to graduate for like six months, but then came right back. So yeah.

20:45.49
Thersa Matsuura
And I remember when I was writing, thinking to myself, I have no experience. Like, I want to write. I want to be a writer. But what am I going to write about? Like, I live in Omaha, Nebraska. And I woke up and went to school today in my part-time job. So there's nothing, no experience. So coming here was also a, it's going to be hard. let's Let's see if we can do this. And maybe I can.

21:09.58
Thersa Matsuura
gain a little, what, not wisdom, but a little experience and something to write about. So that also helped the decision to stay.

21:17.99
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah, so it seems like all of the pieces for your life then started just fitting together and making sense, which which is great, you know, for for quite a lot of us. Like, did do we ever find the pieces that quite fit together? You know, life is one hell of a puzzle, but I mean, so yeah, you're at university, so you took the year in Japan, you then Came back for six months or so, you graduated.

21:48.70
michaeldavidwilson
What's the window between graduation and then returning to Japan?

21:52.52
Thersa Matsuura
and through i but had So I came for a year. I actually extended it for another year. So I was here for two years, then went back and graduated. But during the two years, I met my then to be husband. So whatever we were going out. And then that was it. That was like, okay, I have to go back and I have to graduate. And he's like, hey, want to get married? And I was like,

22:14.97
Thersa Matsuura
Let me think about this. And then I did the whole like, hmm, it's going to be hard. My Japanese isn't that great. Oh, what am I going to do? what am i Let's just go for it. So, yeah. So then said yes before I went, graduated, then came back and then, yeah, still here.

22:32.97
michaeldavidwilson
And that thinking about whether you wanted to marry, did you just give us a real time rendition of the time? Or was it like you had like a, you're like, I'll get back to you in a few days? Or was it on the spot?

22:43.33
Thersa Matsuura
yes It was probably like a year. it was kind like We were talking about it, right?

22:47.23
michaeldavidwilson
Oh, yeah.

22:48.52
Thersa Matsuura
So it's here for a year, and we met during that first year. But then we were still going out and everything. And it was kind of like, hey, you know what? And it was very wishy-washy. It was kind of like, you know if I did propose to you, what would you say? I'm like, well, that's not.

23:00.16
Thersa Matsuura
so What's that? OK, OK. Never mind. So we could go up for a little bit longer and everything. So yeah, it just kind of like happened. Yeah, it was very, uh-oh. Yeah, it was kind of surreal, but it worked out okay.

23:13.87
michaeldavidwilson
yeah right yeah yeah and i mean in terms of learning japanese i mean how how did you go about that and at what point would you say you got comfortable with japanese as a language and then

23:16.14
Thersa Matsuura
For the most part, yes. We're not married now, so for a long time it was okay. I'm still here, I'm still happy.

23:42.09
michaeldavidwilson
At what point would you say you got fluent or near to fluent depending on your definition?

23:51.80
Thersa Matsuura
So, yeah, so the first year was like university stuff, so definitely not fluent, but just kind of, it wasn't until, yeah, after getting married and we lived with his mother-in-law and father-in-law, my mother-in-law and my father-in-law, for

24:10.16
Thersa Matsuura
about six months or something, six months, nine months. It was really interesting. She's a very, very interesting soul. ah She's extremely superstitious, and ah she kind of did this thing where she wanted to know me better, so she she pulled out this. we had a We had a place to live. We had a house we were gonna rent. It's an old relative's house. It's a beautiful old place, but we're all ready to come back here, move in there, but she said, um you know what? it's um The stars aren't aligned right now, and it's bad luck for you to move from Omaha, you know, to Japan, and then move into that direction is very unlucky. So what you could do, well what you know what's lucky? Move into our house for nine months, live with us for a while, and then after that time, then you can move to that house and it'll be okay. So she's kind of waylaid us into moving there, which was fine. But it was during that time that just talking to her and like, I was like, oh, all that you all that studying, ah that was that was one thing, but to actually be in it and and to us. and no internet so you know you got your dictionaries and writing things down and looking things up so and then fluent just little by little and a lot of it was studying like things I wanted to write about and going to the library and again looking things up still studying so a couple years

25:29.31
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah and I recall that you said that your mother-in-law described you as sticky and that means that like the spirit world and spirits would stick to you rather easily. So I think that's an interesting starting point for discussion but I think something that would be useful too to kind of frame this whole conversation is what are your beliefs in terms of the supernatural or lack thereof? What are your beliefs in terms of, you know, the afterlife? Because I think that's always very interesting to get into that.

26:10.48
Thersa Matsuura
I've always had strange things kind of happen. I don't talk about a lot of them, but there's always been like things. I'm there. and I'm very cynical about everything, everything. I'm the biggest cynic in the world. And yet things will happen. And I'm like, all right, that happened. Like, what am I going to make of it? Um, so.

26:36.59
Thersa Matsuura
we That's another thing. My mother and I, she was also very, very into things like that. So we would talk about it a lot. And yeah, just like what an example. um Okay.

26:50.19
Thersa Matsuura
We live in this old house where me and my new partner were living in this old house that we bought and there used to be ah an old man that lived here and he passed away. We're pretty sure he passed away in the house because there are bloodstains on the ceiling upstairs which are kind of freaky. Yeah, they can't get him out. It's pretty cool. I'll show you photos.

27:07.31
Thersa Matsuura
So, anyway, we we don't know the story of how this person passed away or anything, but we kind of sometimes, like, you'll walk into a room and it'll smell like someone's smoking, and we're like, yeah, there's no one smoking here, like, there's no windows open, there's, yeah, 90-year-old and an 80-year-old living on either side of us, there's no, anyway.

27:21.56
Thersa Matsuura
so But Obon, during August, is when the spirits are supposed to come back to the house. And our first year here, by the first year they were out, like they passed away and and the house was empty for probably a year and the next year we moved in. So the theory is, or the theories is the belief is that during Obon, the ancestors come back to your house and they stay there and you welcome them and you give them, you know.

27:46.66
Thersa Matsuura
sake and fruit and everything and then you're together and then you send them off. ah So that obon, it kind of felt funky and I was thinking to myself too, I'm like well we have the area where there should be an altar but there's not and I wonder if we should do something to kind of like incense or something. to kind of let the spirits know that it's not the right place, but if you hear here's some incense. And then one day ah i was I woke up early and I was downstairs and I was drying my hair or something. So I'm by myself, I'm downstairs and I sit down on the couch and I got my head laid over and I'm drying my hair. And I just felt like you're not alone. Like one of those like, yeah.

28:23.01
Thersa Matsuura
And I kept looking around, because I thought my partner was downstairs, and no one's here, no one's here. And then it felt like the the cushion went down, like someone sat next to me. And I jumped, and I was like, sure. Like, OK, yeah, you're here. But no one's there. And I was like, OK. OK, Grandpa. so So I went out, and I got some candy, and I got some and i gave it to him. And I'm like, did the old prey. And I'm like, there you go. You can go. So lots of things like that. Another weird stuff. So yeah.

28:50.74
Thersa Matsuura
i' am a i'm Stuff's going on that we don't know about for sure. that we I don't understand, but it's hard to. You don't want to open up too much to it because, um yeah, some bad stuff happens.

29:05.80
Thersa Matsuura
So it's just getting through.

29:09.97
michaeldavidwilson
Well, I'm curious to ask more about that specific incident, but then you also said, and other weird stuff.

29:10.36
Thersa Matsuura
That makes sense.

29:18.79
michaeldavidwilson
So let's hear about a few of the other weird stuff things.

29:19.34
Thersa Matsuura
Hello. Other words.

29:24.45
michaeldavidwilson
Let's hear what's in that category.

29:24.56
Thersa Matsuura
me ah one The one that I actually will talk about just because um my son was there and later, he's kindergarten, like six years old or something.

29:37.11
Thersa Matsuura
So in Japan, they have this thing called Tan Shin Funin, and that's when the the father, or whoever's making the money, the husband, ah has to live in a different area, prefecture or something. And it's so expensive to move, of course, that the family stays there. you know the The wife and the kids stay there, and then the the husband goes somewhere, and he's off you know for months and months working. He comes back on the weekends or whenever he can. So my ex used to do that a lot. He was gone.

30:03.51
Thersa Matsuura
and so he's not home and you just like once a month he'd come back on the weekend and we had the futons laid out three because he was little and you do the three in Japan you have the wife and the husband and the child the child's in the middle and how did it work it's i woke up and i had like it was like a lucid dream and there was this horrible dark man like there And he's sort of pushed up or something. I have to look at my my journal. i wrote earlier yeah But he pointed at me. It was just this bad, just like this bad, bad, bad force. And he he put his finger like just kind of through my chest. and It just burned. I just remember about how much it burned. And then I remember kind of screaming in my head. I remember worried about Julian. I remember I didn't want to look at Julian because I didn't want i thought if I looked at him, then the the whatever it was looking at me would look there too. And I was like, OK.

31:00.15
Thersa Matsuura
So all of that happened at night, and just whatever. And then I woke up the next day and Julian woke up, we're fine, we're downstairs, we're eating. And Julian just looks at me and he goes, so did daddy come home last night? And I'm like, no, he doesn't come home till, you know, two weeks from now. No, no, there was, I woke up in the middle of the night and I saw you lying there and there was, daddy was standing over you pointing at you. I was like, saw what?

31:26.14
Thersa Matsuura
And it gets worse, it gets worse. So that was like, oh my God, mind blowing. And then I had like days and days of just foreboding, like something bad's gonna happen. And I kept thinking it was gonna be Julian. I'm like, oh my God. So I literally, he'd get on the bus to go to kindergarten and I'd follow the bus because I'm like, oh, there's gonna be an accident. There's gonna be an accident. Couldn't put my finger on it. Something bad's gonna happen, something bad's gonna happen. Turns out it wasn't Julian. I ended up having breast cancer.

31:55.06
Thersa Matsuura
exactly where he stuck his finger. And it was October. We went back to this. I went to Julian to have Halloween and and in America. So we were going back and I'm like, wait a minute, that's odd. And got to check up in America. And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, did the whole nine yards and boom. And I was like 32. I was like young too. So that.

32:20.87
Thersa Matsuura
It was a little freaky. And just even now talking to Julian, and like like, do you remember what happened then? And he tells me what he said. He says, yeah, yeah, I remember seeing someone. So after that, there was lots of ah throwing salt about the room. And my mother-in-law was hiring people to come in, what, to O'Harai, like a purification rituals and stuff. So yeah, yeah, that's that's the worst of it, I suppose.

32:49.32
Thersa Matsuura
but Yeah, kind of makes you a believer, I guess. I don't know. I don't know how our brains work, but...

32:59.45
michaeldavidwilson
It's so difficult to process all of that.

32:59.58
Thersa Matsuura
Sorry.

33:02.43
Thersa Matsuura
I know, right?

33:06.02
Bob Pastorella
This is hearing this and somebody who's seen Ju-on like probably too many times. And I'm like going, you need to leave that house.

33:16.52
Bob Pastorella
You know, it's like, oh man. And wow.

33:21.70
Thersa Matsuura
yeah yeah

33:24.24
Bob Pastorella
That's, that's creepy stuff.

33:24.44
Thersa Matsuura
and theyre yeah Yeah, and I don't even, I didn't even know, I didn't even know, it's another thing, it's like how to process, even now, I'm like, I don't, there's, um it was a new house, but it was built on old land, and I learned, I think after the fact that it's it was just this crookedy old road, and there was a very, not too far from our house, um a shrine called Kubitsuka Jinja, and Kubitsuka means, like, the grave, the head grave, so I guess there was a time whenever, whenever, where the samurai were coming to, there was two big,

33:57.32
Thersa Matsuura
fights or something, and they were coming through. And they just went through, and they just, you know, lopped off heads and lined them up along the street. And it's bad. Like, the energy there's not supposed to be very good. So they built the shrine to kind of dissipate down anything. But, ah yeah, so there's, sort like, it wasn't an old, icky, scary house, but the, I guess the the land is kind of, like, got bad energy in it or something, or creepy little men.

34:26.75
Thersa Matsuura
So I don't know if that's it. I don't know. I don't know if it's like some kind of my brain making sense of something that it's going to happen or just that was a very weird many years of my life there.

34:43.19
Bob Pastorella
Yeah, it kind of sounds like um with the the like a shadow person like if you have night terrors

34:49.15
Thersa Matsuura
Mm.

34:51.78
Bob Pastorella
Um, and normally because one of the sensations is it feels like that they're sitting on your chest or your torso, but this figure actually touched you with their finger, which I believe you can, you can have that in night terrors, but it's just not as common.

35:04.48
Thersa Matsuura
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

35:10.32
Bob Pastorella
The the fact that your son saw it.

35:10.32
Thersa Matsuura
Oh.

35:13.42
Thersa Matsuura
Mm.

35:15.97
Bob Pastorella
rules out like night terror.

35:18.17
Thersa Matsuura
Ah.

35:18.40
Bob Pastorella
You know, so yeah, you come up, yeah, because they're not really shared.

35:18.66
Thersa Matsuura
but Yeah, you're right, like.

35:24.05
Bob Pastorella
You know, it's there. That's a more psychological, personal type of thing.

35:28.68
Thersa Matsuura
Mm-hmm.

35:29.34
Bob Pastorella
um But golly, that's creepy, man.

35:35.15
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah.

35:36.79
Bob Pastorella
That's freaking creepy.

35:38.02
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah, yeah. I wrote it all down, like I might, my journal, I just write it and it's really, I can't read them. I'm like, yeah, it's a lot still, a lot. Maybe when I get older and I'm like, okay, let's go.

35:46.01
Bob Pastorella
Mm

35:49.25
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah, so that's kind of, yeah.

35:49.41
Bob Pastorella
-hmm

35:50.33
Thersa Matsuura
So it's like, ah I believe, but I'm not very excited to have anything happen to me. Like, like it's like, it's okay.

35:59.13
michaeldavidwilson
Well, I can understand that, particularly when it seems like the things that have happened have not exactly been positive things.

35:59.42
Thersa Matsuura
I wake up in the middle of the night and, you know,

36:08.64
michaeldavidwilson
Not had a friendly Casper, the ghost, turn up and, you know, treat you to something.

36:11.08
Thersa Matsuura
Right, right. I mean, there there there were, here you go, go here. These are the lottery numbers. Go buy the ticket tomorrow.

36:19.36
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah, yeah.

36:20.95
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah, I mean, there's been like good periods in my, you know, um when I was doing martial arts and doing a lot of meditation and it's like, oh, enlightenment, this is, oh, whatever, you know.

36:31.79
Thersa Matsuura
So you get in a really high state of something, but yeah, yeah, it's up and down. At least the the old man here seems very kind. He doesn't do anything freaky. It's not a bad feeling here, so that's nice.

36:49.51
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah, we're going to return to the old man shortly. In fact, but yeah, goodness, as Bob said, I mean that the fact that it was a shared experience that your son saw it as well.

36:58.20
Thersa Matsuura
o

37:05.29
michaeldavidwilson
Cause I'm always when, when something happens to me or when I'm hearing about something, I mean, I always find it fascinating, but then I try to play devil's advocate as well.

37:16.02
Thersa Matsuura
Right, right.

37:16.78
michaeldavidwilson
But it's much harder to do when multiple people see it, particularly if there's no discussion. You know, you didn't say to your son, this happened last night. He just came out with it.

37:29.13
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah, yeah, that was really. Yeah. yeah and Yeah, I ah wouldn't tell him because it was just so freaky, but just, yeah, did dad come home?

37:38.90
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah.

37:39.81
Thersa Matsuura
And I'm like, what? That was just one of those moments where you just drop the spoon and you're like, okay, tell me what you saw.

37:49.57
michaeldavidwilson
So after then having the cancer diagnosis, I mean, did you have to have treatment in America? Did you have it in Japan? like

37:58.21
Thersa Matsuura
in America, I decided to stay. So that was, that was, that was good. I mean, it was a good, it's hard to say it's good, but just to be around my family for this. You know, my husband was like gone all the time anyway. Very isolated here. And Julian too, having my mom and dad around and making friends and stuff. So, you know, as bad as it was for me, I was just so glad it was me and not him. Like my whole time it was a foreboding that something was gonna happen to him.

38:27.41
Thersa Matsuura
And that was just, I just couldn't. And then when it was me, I was like, okay, well at least it's me. He's not him. And please, you know, let me live long enough that I can, you know, see him get a little older and stuff. So it was very, yeah, but whatever it is. But being around my parents was nice. And yeah, came back and absolutely ah kind of purified the house and my mother-in-law helped me there. So, and that's probably where the sticky came from with my mother-in-law.

38:59.50
michaeldavidwilson
And you never saw the shadow man again.

39:03.54
Thersa Matsuura
I did. I did one more time.

39:04.52
michaeldavidwilson
Oh.

39:05.87
Thersa Matsuura
But this one was, it wasn't, nothing, nothing really happened.

39:08.63
Thersa Matsuura
But it's a scene I use in a book I'm writing is, and this was freaky too. And I, I don't know how long after that, it might've been before it. I really need to look at my journals, but um sleeping and then waking up, I'm lying on my back sleeping, looking up, but it feels like someone's on my back, like someone's like holding me and then kind of looking down and it's kind of like a Kanashi body in Japanese but let's sleep paralysis where you can't move but I'm kind of trying to look around and then for some reason like I can like see arms so it's almost like say I'm lying on my back there's there's just there's a futon but beneath me but it's almost like he's holding me and then when I look over like his face right here it was like the same kind of sharp tooth dude and bit my shoulder and then woke up

40:01.00
Thersa Matsuura
And yeah, that wasn't fun either. um And again, just incense and just, you know, get away, get away, whatever this bad thing is. and And yeah, my son too used to see things in his room, but his was always, and his too was, he didn't know about the whole lapping off the head things, but he did say when he was little that there was a head in his closet that used to come out at night and float above his head. And yeah, it was,

40:31.31
Thersa Matsuura
What's weird is that you expect that in like a spooky haunted house. So to have, you know, this bright new home, him saying something like that, like, mom, the head came out again last night. What? And there's a, um I don't know if Michael knows it or not. His name is Mr. Magic, Mr. Matic or something. He's like a Japanese talent or something. He's a magician, but he's got a very distinctive face. and do it Oh, he looks just like that. He looks just like Mr. Matic or something. you I was like, okay. so So it is something you're seeing. If it's a dream or not, I don't know.

41:01.57
Thersa Matsuura
But yeah, every once in a while, we talk about it. Like, remember in the house? This weird thing's happened.

41:08.96
Thersa Matsuura
During the day, it felt fine.

41:10.76
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah, yeah.

41:11.17
Thersa Matsuura
Just missed a night.

41:12.83
michaeldavidwilson
You don't expect that from a new build. It's like, come on, we got a new build.

41:16.75
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah, right, right, right. You know, I went like this kind of house with the old stuff and everything.

41:22.49
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah.

41:23.95
Thersa Matsuura
But after that, fingers crossed it's been staying away.

41:30.56
michaeldavidwilson
and the The current place that you're in, so how how long have you been in this place?

41:36.07
Thersa Matsuura
It's about three, four years. So left that house, was kind of in a little apartment for a while, and then came here. So um so yeah, yeah, so this is...

41:48.50
Thersa Matsuura
And also, maybe, I don't know, I really believe that in Japan, like, it's so small, and people have lived here for thousands of years, like just the land has so much history, like things have happened here that we don't know about. So you can go to places and this feels either really nice or it feels really creepy or something. So this place feels nice, so so far so good, everything's good.

42:12.23
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah, and you said that an old man had died in the house, that you knew about that. Okay, that's standard. People know. But then you said, because there are blood stains on the ceiling.

42:24.33
michaeldavidwilson
this is This is not a normal comment as to how you know something someone has died.

42:29.57
Thersa Matsuura
I'll send you the photo it's almost I don't know if it's really but there are brown marks that look like a spray like an arterial I will I will send you the photo and we joke because we're um we were joking like oh is it kind of had a really antiseptic smell like maybe someone was bedridden here for a long time in this one room and the house is all old but there's one room that's totally refurbished like everything is new in this one room and we're like hmm wonder what happened here so we have these stories we make up like you know grandma went mad and she went after Grandpa we have no idea we're just making all this up we don't know

43:07.04
Thersa Matsuura
But one day we were sitting there when we look up, and there's like these brown spots that are leading away from a certain area and went, hmm. Try to wipe them off. They don't come off.

43:17.79
Thersa Matsuura
So, hmm. I'll go take a photo for you. I don't know. It could be anything. you know It could be a green tea, for all I know. But it's a nice story for a short.

43:29.04
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah yeah and I mean given I suppose your history with these encounters or these disquieting events I guess there might be a part of you that's a little bit afraid to kind of paint over it because it's like well what are they gonna do then or like you paint over it and then the next night there's like blood dripping from the ceiling it's like oh my god just just leave it alone

43:45.54
Thersa Matsuura
what just leave it leave it for some instance yeah yeah yeah right right you think you're doing the right thing like oh i'm being compassionate

43:58.00
Bob Pastorella
What's that saying? I mean, it's in the ring. You weren't supposed to savor. You know, and it's like you don't paint over it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, what do you mean? Oh, shit. Screwed up bad.

44:14.53
Thersa Matsuura
That's so funny, because that's the thing you think you're supposed to do, right? Like, oh, I was magnanimous.

44:17.80
Bob Pastorella
Yeah. We'll just paint over it.

44:18.28
Thersa Matsuura
I did the right thing.

44:20.59
Bob Pastorella
When you got that one, that one, that one older neighbor is like, oh, you should not have done that at all.

44:22.31
Thersa Matsuura
Oh, what did you do?

44:26.03
Bob Pastorella
That's probably the worst thing you could have done, but you do you. I'm going to the car.

44:32.29
Thersa Matsuura
Yep.

44:32.93
Bob Pastorella
yeah

44:34.24
Thersa Matsuura
I do that a lot. Like, I think I'm doing the right thing. And it's like, nope, that wasn't the right thing. So damn. There you go again. So yeah, so just kind of leave it. Don't sleep in that room. and Yeah, just, every once in a while if we smell smoke we're like, oh grandpa's here today.

44:50.76
Thersa Matsuura
So I don't know, I don't know. It doesn't feel, it doesn't feel very terrible. So that's a plus.

44:57.61
michaeldavidwilson
Did you get the property at a bargain price because nobody else would touch it? You're nodding.

45:04.64
Thersa Matsuura
It was, yeah, it's, we're renting, so that's that. And, Yeah, yeah, and it was kind of, it's a really nice old place, like it's big, and it's got parking lot, and there's a park across the street, and there's rice fields out back, so it's kind of like, yeah, why didn't anyone snap this up? I know now, now I don't know, I do ask the neighbor, kind of, I'm like, so what happened next door? And she's vague, like, oh, he was a really nice man, I like them, and I'm like, oh, but I can't ask you, like, well, how did they, you know? So I'm hoping she'll tell me one day, but so far no ah details.

45:42.79
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah, I suppose that's a good thing about renting that if you need to leave quickly, it's a lot easier.

45:50.82
Thersa Matsuura
I'll be in the car.

45:50.90
michaeldavidwilson
But I mean, I don't know what your experience has been, but it seems like, and unlike the UK and America, there's more of an argument to just rent rather than buy a property in Japan, because I mean, they're so frequently building new houses, I suppose, because it's such an earthquake-prone environment that, unlike the UK, if you buy a house, chances are the value is going to plummet rather than, you know, it be an investment. So, I mean, I haven't bought a property yet. I i sometimes think about it, and to be honest, the best way to

46:35.56
michaeldavidwilson
perhaps make some money back as if you actually just buy an apartment. But then if you buy the apartment, you have to pay the kind of maintenance, which is a little bit like a rent anyway.

46:47.03
michaeldavidwilson
So at that point, is it worth it?

46:47.16
Thersa Matsuura
Right.

46:50.24
Thersa Matsuura
Right, right. I don't know either. But I'm that's what I'm right now. I'm kind of like, you know, just rent. ah you know everything depreciates and even the house before is it's worth now like the house is fine but it's just worth the land right because people are gonna buy the new houses they're not gonna yeah then there's the old buy an old place and fix it up dream and again you know what are you what are you walking into when you but you buy an old place in japan i don't know

47:21.63
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that that seems to be like the way that quite a few Western people do it. But, you know, if you have a Japanese partner, then they're like, no, no, we can't do that. You know, that there's almost like the fear as to like, yeah, what are you doing? What could happen? So there's a lot of superstition.

47:45.59
Thersa Matsuura
Yes, yes, my mother-in-law would never, like, nope, nope, you're not gonna, you're not gonna rent, no. Yeah, you don't know what happened there. You don't know about it, so.

47:53.77
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah. Yeah. i I tend to find, and I mean, I don't know if this has been your experience too, but Japan is probably the most spiritual and superstitious country.

47:56.23
Thersa Matsuura
Hang on.

48:02.15
Thersa Matsuura
That's a

48:09.41
michaeldavidwilson
There isn't a religious country. It's so interesting.

48:12.78
Thersa Matsuura
good way to put it. That's a really good way to put it. Yeah. Yeah, because religion's no no, nothing, but yeah. Superstition and each die, like so telling things through the generations and stuff. I like that.

48:29.97
Bob Pastorella
Yeah, it's, you know, religion is, to me, is more of mankind's interpretation of, you know, different scriptures, different readings and things like that, and trying to put it into a, you know, an organized type of thing.

48:53.89
Bob Pastorella
And so it's manmade. And when you you're in a country that doesn't subscribe to any particular religion, but is built, but has thousands of years of folklore that's never been tainted, then it it begins to make sense.

49:18.02
Thersa Matsuura
Hmm.

49:18.77
Bob Pastorella
And I didn't realize that about Japan until Michael said that, but that's,

49:25.62
Bob Pastorella
That's why, and it's probably just not a Japanese thing, but you're, you're noticing that cause you're there. There's probably other countries that are like that. Whereas, you know, in the United States, you know, I mean, our folklore is like what Paul Bunyan, you know, I mean, Johnny Appleseed, you know what I mean?

49:41.46
Thersa Matsuura
I know!

49:45.45
Bob Pastorella
We can't, when there's some other, there's some, you know, some cryptid stuff, but other than that, you know, sadly is, you know, we were.

49:56.30
Thersa Matsuura
Hmm.

49:56.56
Bob Pastorella
A very religious nation. Um, but we shouldn't be, um, you know, and, um, because our history ah also has a lot to do with the occult that a lot of people, you know, they don't realize until they actually look, see it for themselves.

50:14.27
Bob Pastorella
And they're like, Oh, well, shit that wasn't your call. Yeah. So, but yeah, that's that's an interesting point that Michael made there.

50:18.60
Thersa Matsuura
Go back. but one Yeah.

50:22.92
Bob Pastorella
Very, very fascinating.

50:27.68
michaeldavidwilson
Well even a broken clock is right twice a day so occasionally an interesting point is made and I mean to go back to this idea that when you decided you were going to live in Japan different pieces of your life were coming together one of which being okay this is what I'm going to write about

50:36.04
Bob Pastorella
Yes.

50:53.71
michaeldavidwilson
You know, I want to know what were some of the first stories or articles or what was your first exploration into writing about Japan?

51:06.38
Thersa Matsuura
That, so when we first got married in the first house, I told you we had that one that was, it was an old house, but it was very beautiful. And after we lived at the in-laws, we moved in there. And it was very surreal because again, this is pre-internet. I had moved from the city of Shizoka to the small fishing town of Yaizu. I had no friends. Entire neighborhood was just elderly people, generations that have lived there. And I'm by myself, didn't have my son or anything. And it was kind of like the house taught me about Japan. Like I was kind of, you know, tatami mat floors and the fusuma. And then the old ladies too would come in and we'd be talking. And I was kind of learning about old Japan through the house. And it was a very quiet, quiet

52:01.37
Thersa Matsuura
interesting part of my life. And then after a couple years, our landlord, her daughter, her daughter or something, wanted to live in the house. So you have to leave. And it was like very quick. It was like, you know, the daughter is on this land. They're building a highway that's going through it. She needs to be in the house in six months and you need to leave. And I was just heartbroken because I just loved this house. So the first story I ever wrote was called Sand Walls, Paper Doors, Sand Walls. The walls here are covered in sand. So they have a nice but but it's not shined, like everything's dim and woody and papery and I just love that. So Sandwall's paper doors, paper doors with the food so my doors. And it was about a girl, a lady or something living in a house and having to move and just the spirits and the yokai and the things that taught her about living and she's having to leave them, right?

52:59.31
Thersa Matsuura
so It was a way probably the first time I wrote a a complete story as a way of healing. like kind of Like I have to, I don't want to leave. I don't want to leave. I love this house. And and I wanted to thank the house, kind of. So I wrote that and then that.

53:20.18
Thersa Matsuura
got accepted and was in that some yeahll but it was small magazine. And it kind of got like, oh, OK, that's right. I wanted to be a writer. I had forgotten about his doing all this university stuff. like That's right. I wanted to be a writer. So then I started um listening more to the older ladies and my mother-in-law and all the superstitions. And it was so difficult because you know and nothing I could do was right. Everything I did was wrong.

53:46.46
Thersa Matsuura
And it was like, I don't want to get angry. ah you know You don't do it that way. You got to do it this way. you know You got holes in your jeans. Don't put your jeans out on the laundry. That's embarrassing. Like, OK, OK, OK. So instead of fighting everybody, I just say, OK, I got to figure out just why. Like, why are things done this way? And that's when I started going to the library and started asking questions. And I started writing stories.

54:16.22
Thersa Matsuura
about that just kind of at the time too this is pre cartoon network so I didn't know one really knew about Japan very much and so it's kind of I can introduce them to these these these ideas that are here that I'm trying to think of another story in the first book but um just the idea of you know your your relatives are still with you or they come back in a bone or all all these things and yes I just started collecting stories like that so that was the beginning of the whole writing thing and I made it my own genre I called it mythical realism okay that'll work I'm gonna be famous so that's how that all starts

54:59.95
michaeldavidwilson
I like it and it fits your stories. I think yeah the key to coining a new term is to just keep saying it enough until it gets into the zeitgeist.

55:05.87
Thersa Matsuura
It's just bringing the material.

55:15.05
Thersa Matsuura
He keeps saying it.

55:16.33
michaeldavidwilson
And then when they Google mythical realism, they will see your name. It's all a plan.

55:20.57
Thersa Matsuura
year

55:26.79
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah, yeah. And that's how it feels too, right, living here. It's, it's, you know, talking about superstition and and spiritualism and everything. It's just, it's very close.

55:39.05
Thersa Matsuura
You know, I've told this story before, but um going back to my ex's, his grandmother. And during Obone, that period when people come back from the dead, she had an old broken clock. And it was like a grandfather clock. It wasn't very big. It was this old clock, and it was broken. Every time I went there, it was broken, broken, broken. you'd go I'd go back in August during this time, and it's working. And I'm like, oh, you got the clock fixed. And she's like, oh, no, that's grandpa. He always makes it work when he goes. And and no one raises an eyebrow. They're just like, yeah, yeah, that's grandpa. Every year it happens.

56:14.51
Thersa Matsuura
no people the clock was broken it was always broken it's moving now you're telling me it's gonna stop when grandpa leaves yeah yeah it'll stop eventually and it does so just things like that and the people don't get excited about it they're just like yeah yeah that's what happened so it's a different vibe I guess living here smaller town much much different in the States

56:41.34
michaeldavidwilson
Yeah. And I think, you know, everything that's magical about Japan is amplified if you're in a smaller town, if you're in a rural community, as opposed to one of the bigger cities.

56:54.12
Thersa Matsuura
Mm.

56:54.69
michaeldavidwilson
But I suppose, you know, particularly thinking about this experience with the clock, I mean, one thing that's very exciting With Japan, it's almost like the land of possibility and that there's an excitement like these things could happen. There's almost ironically more possibility of an afterlife than if you live in a religious society because the problem with religion is because It's been man-made, now some people are going to turn off, but you can go back to the origin and then you can kind of disprove it. But if you have all these superstitions that are kind of never questioned and they just happen and it's just part of the fabric, well, suddenly it's very difficult to disprove.

57:46.63
Thersa Matsuura
and ghostly things and and ah stories through the generations, people telling, oh, remember that time that this happened? And again, no one raising an eyebrow. Yes, yeah I remember that happened.

57:56.73
Thersa Matsuura
Or, oh, grandma told me this, or auntie so-and-so told me this. And it's so matter of fact that, you know, ah yeah as an American, my coffee, right?

58:03.70
Bob Pastorella
Mm-hmm.

58:06.83
Thersa Matsuura
But no no one else is doubting it. So, you know, weird things happen. I don't know. Maybe.

58:14.65
Bob Pastorella
The folklore and the superstitions have become a way of life and it's, that's fascinating.

58:14.87
michaeldavidwilson
I did.

58:18.57
Thersa Matsuura
Hmm Yeah, it's really integrated it's just like woven into And again, like Michael said like in the city.

58:23.49
Bob Pastorella
Mm-hmm.

58:28.17
Thersa Matsuura
I don't know maybe not so much but Go back to the where all the older people lives and they still believe all this for sure.

58:38.66
Bob Pastorella
Mmhmm.

58:41.07
michaeldavidwilson
I think in getting the cities, like there's certainly still the very ritualistic element, but I just, so I think it does exist in the bigger cities, but it's just amplified in the smaller areas, in the rural areas, in what we term Inaka, Japan, I think you've really got an amplification there.

59:04.69
Thersa Matsuura
Yeah I think so.