TIH 595: Danger Slater on The Structure of Starlet, Kit Kats, and The Danger Slater Origin Story

Michael David Wilson 0:28
Welcome to This Is Horror, a podcast for readers, writers and creators. I'm Michael David Wilson, and every episode, alongside my co host, Bob Pastorella, we chat with the world's best writers about writing, life lessons, creativity and much more. Today we are talking to danger Slater for the second and final part of our conversation danger is the author of a multitude of books, including house of rot, starlet, I will rot without you and Moon, fellas. And today, a lot of our conversation is surrounding the release of starlet published by ghoulish books, but if you want to read danger Slater, you could honestly start with any of his stories, and I think you're going to have a good time. He is an underrated author. He is a master of dialog, if you like dark humor. If you like unpredictable tales, if you like a little smattering of WTF and bizarro amongst your narrative, then the fiction of danger Slater is certainly for you. And in spite of all the comedy, in spite of all the weirdness, there is always something poignant and a commentary on society, on humanity, if you dig a little bit deeper. So certainly, if you haven't, dangerous later is one to check out. But before we get into the conversation with him, a quick advert break.

Cosmic Horror Monthly 2:25
Are you a reader with an insatiable appetite for creeping dread? Do you hunger for fiction of an eldritch nature? Try cosmic horror monthly, a magazine dedicated to publishing the very best in cosmic horror and weird fiction. Ch M offers tomes in digital and print, and when you subscribe today, your first print copy is free. Hurry before the stars finally align

Andrew Love 2:57
in 1867 the young Samantha gray marries the infamous Captain Jakes, unleashing a series of brutal horrors in this epic splatter Western from Death's Head press mayhem. Sam by J D grays is a rip roaring tall tale of revenge. Drags a coffin full of gold across the hellscape of reconstruction Texas and explodes at the top of a mountain. You better read this one with lights on.

Michael David Wilson 3:26
Okay? With that said, Here it is. It is dangerous. Later on. This Is Horror. And in terms of your books, if you could choose for one to be made into a movie. Which book would you go for?

Danger Slater 3:46
I mean, starlet is built basically to be a movie itself, like it is structured like a movie. It especially the beginning, like it's pretty familiar territory, up into, like, the turn where it starts getting weird. So, like, it is very much like, oh, you know, like a girl goes somewhere, things go bad. Like, that is what fucking movies are. There's, there's a lot of stuff that I've, I've written that is like, and I think we were talking about this, I don't know if this is on Mike or before we started recording. Before we started recording, where it's like, how would they even film this thing that I've written if they were to make it a movie like, it's not, it's not really built for that necessarily translation, but starlet itself has the structure very much on purpose, because it's a book about movies to Hap feel like how a movie would feel.

Michael David Wilson 4:45
Yeah. And is there anything that you're doing to look about shopping the rights around? Do you have any kind of connections a film agent.

Danger Slater 5:00
It's very difficult to get anybody to pay attention to anything. But I do have a film agent. Her name is Carmen, who is doing her doing her thing out there, trying to do her thing. She also is a producer herself, but kind of working on her own thing. So I'm in the mix, you know, like, as far as getting anything like this made, it's like, it's great to have someone who has connections like her, but also she's not, she's going to pitch it to the right people. So unless she's, like, talking to someone who wants to make a freaky, weird horror movie like it's not going to come up in the conversation. And that's just kind of how the agents who do that work, like they're not gonna, you know, unless the book itself is blowing up and then people start knocking on her door asking for me. But otherwise, it's like I have a pocket full of stories. Who's the right story for this person? Like, what's the right pitch for this, this producer or this studio or whatever, you

Bob Pastorella 6:10
know, I just, I have, like, a really, really sick mind, and I would think that if, if Armie Hammer wanted to do a comeback movie starlets, the fucking script, you know, you know, because it would be crazy if he could just, if he leaned into it, said, Yeah, I'll fucking do it.

Danger Slater 6:33
That would be, that would be, that would be a lot. That would be, I don't know what, how I, I would be scared, to be honest.

Bob Pastorella 6:43
I know, but I mean, if he just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. I totally get it. I get where you're coming from. I get everything about it and and I'll do it justice, that would be like, Wow, that's so fucking crazy.

Danger Slater 6:56
Then I'm then I'm at that moment where we were talking about before, where I'm like, Okay, well, am I? Is Would my working with him make me because I want this done. I want a movie made me now one of the victimizers. Am I now in league with the fucking bad guys? Because I want the thing that they can give me, you know? And that is like that fucking Faustian bargain that is offered to, like, anyone who, who's trying to get ahead, or do anything to get ahead, is this like, trade off of like, you're gonna have to fucking possibly swallow some shit if you want to get the thing that you get or want to get?

Michael David Wilson 7:35
Yeah, I think army hammer is just a little bit too on the nose there is like, as Bob said, he's like, yeah, I get it. It's like, No, you get it too much, you know, I I fear for the safety of whoever would be cast as deja is like, you know, in that situation. So I could imagine maybe someone like Andrew Scott playing Brandon, you know who was in the TV show, Ripley. He is also in flea bag and Sherlock. He's got, he's an Irish actor. He's got that kind of classic look, but that I don't know that probably it was because of how good he was in Ripley that now I don't trust him. I think that's a purpose. So, yeah,

Danger Slater 8:29
I wanted, if I was to cast branded, I wanted, I would want Josh Hartnett to play it.

Michael David Wilson 8:35
Oh yeah,

Danger Slater 8:36
he's very, very handsome. I I was like, trying to think of like, not that I sit out here, I'm trying to cast my books, but I was thinking about it with this one. Like I said, nerd, I do have an agent who's trying to pitch it to people. Like, I'm like, Who would I want to play there? And I'm like, trying to think of actors that have a kind of that trajectory where, like Josh Hartnett was, like, really hot when I was a teenager or late teenager in my early 20s, whatever, like, 20 years ago, and he kind of went away for a while, and he's kind of having his little comeback right now with that M Night Shyamalan movie he was just in and but he's still great. He's still very handsome, but, like, I don't know, it's just like, I want that kind of like, it would, I would love to have an actor who, like, embodies what the character actually is. Yeah, like, I say an army hammer would be a little too on the notes. But just like someone trying to have a comeback, you know, someone that we love that needs a comeback, would be like, great to cast in a movie like that.

Bob Pastorella 9:42
Yeah, I find it amazing too, that it's like you have this actor who has, like, this really, really dark side, and he's managed to keep it hidden even within his movies. I mean, we have a guy who is the living embodiment of lonely islands. I just in my pants and. And, I mean, and, but he manages to keep that a fucking secret. It's like, this guy comes when the wind blows, yeah, which, it's led to some extreme, like, laugh out loud scenes in the book. And I'm just like, how did this guy keep it fucking secret? Man? It's like, well, what, what? How did, Dan, did you do that? But it's, I don't know, just it makes me think of how many people in Hollywood actually have those kind of kinks and things like that. And it's probably more than we can imagine.

Danger Slater 10:33
I mean, and the thing is, too like these secrets in Hollywood are, like, open secrets that everybody already knows. Like these people have like, and that's not everybody, obviously, but the fucking bad guys, like, are doing it with impunity because they have all this power, and everyone is just kind of like, looking the other way, or pretending like they don't know, or whatever, until it gets to the critical mass where, like, Okay, now something needs to happen. Now we need to arrest them, or now they need to face consequences. Or someone finally, you know, you know, victim number 120 is finally the one that breaks the fucking camel's back, for some reason. But like, that is like it is happening, and it's probably going to continue to happen forever, not just in Hollywood, but everywhere, because this is just like the dark part of, you know, the world itself and and power.

Bob Pastorella 11:34
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just, it's like, what the same thing happened with Ron, with Ron Jeremy, you know, and he's in the adult business, so it's kind of like, you know, dude, you really had it all, and you, you ruined it. And of course, now, you know, he's, like, totally mentally incompetent, has dementia, conveniently weird, but I don't know. It's just there's, there's a dark side, and you, you really, you expose it, and it's good that, that, that you did in such an entertaining way. It's like, you know, if you're listening to this and you're on the fence of reading this book, you should really read it, because there's some on the surface stuff and there's some undersurface stuff that cuts it's really important.

Danger Slater 12:22
Yeah, I wish I was like, as good at explaining myself as I was, as I am at like, when I have time to sit down and write these kinds of things, because I feel like I kind of, like, lose my own beat, like, my own I lose the fucking bead when I'm talking like, I don't know where I'm going. I'm like, Oh man, I so half the time I'm like, I'm like, I know I have a point to make, but I don't know where I'm landing now. Like, when I sit down to write, it's like, it's like, actually slowing my brain down in a way that I could have these kinds of thoughts and these kinds of debates, in a way, that I can actually make sense and make it a real point of what I'm trying to do, instead of just kind of rambling or firing off tweets where, you know, I don't know, I don't even know what I'm getting at, it's exactly what I'm talking

Michael David Wilson 13:16
about. This is exactly why we're writers, you know, because we get that opportunity to have these multiple drafts and to really consider, you know, what it is that we want to say. So I think, you know, a lot of people are in a similar situation. But I mean, as you mentioned, social media. I mean, what is your relationship like with that at the moment? And, I mean, how do you even decide what it is that you're going to put out as content on social media? Yeah, you know,

Danger Slater 14:00
I wish I was like, I wish I had better opinions about stuff, because I can't, not that. I wish I had better opinions, but I wish I knew how to express my opinions in a better way, because I feel like a lot, especially Twitter, but a lot of it is kind of built around kind of putting an opinion out there and then having people kind of like, corroborate your opinion or push up against it or whatever, or or retweet you or reblog you or whatever, saying, hey, yeah, I think this too, this guy's speaking for me, like, and that's just not how it works, because every time I have a thought about something, I also think about the other side of it, and it's not like, I'm like, Oh, well, you know, this obviously wrong thing is not something I should be against. But I'm like, Why do would I need to say that? Why would I need to say the thing that everyone else is saying? Like, so I treat it very much like, uh. A place for me to make jokes and kind of make silly content, because that's what I can bring to the table that is uniquely me, that I know I can handle. So I could not really get too deep into it, into like actually engaging with social media, I just can post my little joke and then let that sit there and be like, I still exist. Guys, look, I put there's a funny picture of me.

Michael David Wilson 15:31
Yeah, I think that's a good way to be, particularly with the type of books that you're writing. It's complimentary to what you're doing. And I mean, we don't have to talk about social media for too long. It's probably best that we don't. But the big negative, I think, is that there's always an encouragement to have a strong opinion on a polarizing issue, but often an issue where, if you look at it properly, there's a lot of nuance and there's some truth on either side. So yeah, I don't engage in these things a lot because also, I'm liable, and it's okay for me to change my mind. So I don't want to put this definitive statement when you know, in a few weeks time, if presented with evidence to the contrary, well, I might have a different opinion, and the world isn't really painted in black and white. It's all these different shades and it's different colors,

Danger Slater 16:34
and we're in like, kind of a transitional stage of social media Anyway, like I know, like me in particular, found a lot of success with through Twitter eight years ago, which I you know, you're in the same boat, I'm assuming, with, with the podcast and in your own writing. Using Twitter, it's kind of your main place. It is a rapidly sinking ship at this point where it you do not get kind of a fraction of the engagement or eyes on anything that you used to, even if it is one of those hot button or controversial issues that get a lot of retweets, it's still not working the way it used to. So I don't know what the next thing is like. People will be like, Oh, do a tick. Do it? Do a tick tock. I sound like I'm 100 years old. Do a tick tock. People like, you know, go on tick tock. But it's like, the same fucking thing. It's just the new thing. And it's like, what? That's not really the answer. And I don't want to sit around and make stupid like, videos of myself dancing, like, it's just not my vibe. So, like, I don't know what is really next. I think it might be kind of more like these kind of discords and places that are more community focused, where it's very specific people that you're talking to. Instead of trying to talk to the whole world like you would on a Twitter, you're going to be talking to a couple 100 people in this discord, and then maybe a couple 100 people in this other one. And that's kind of the way to to kind of get your your kind of brand out there is more personal and direct than necessarily, like a big billboard on the internet?

Michael David Wilson 18:23
Yeah, yeah, it would make sense, because a lot of things are cyclical, and kind of the earlier days of the Internet were forums and message boards, and that's kind of what you know, discord and other platforms are essentially like, that's what they're doing, but, yeah, in terms of a kind of Twitter replacement, if there is one, it hasn't arrived yet. You know, you've got blue sky, and it's essentially a copycat, and that's getting some traction, but I don't see it ever taking over and becoming bigger than Twitter, whatever it is, it will be innovative. But tick tock is not the platform for writers. It's kind of the worst platform for writers, in the sense that you know exactly what you were articulating before that like video and kind of in person conversations, that's not where you have clarity of thought, so I think it would be at least a text based medium. But maybe we're done with it. Maybe people are fed up of, you know, these text based Twitter clones and Facebook clones and

Danger Slater 19:41
like, I mean, not to speculate or get off topic here, but like, we're in the middle of a big paradigm shift in what the internet even is going to be anyway, because in five years, with every all this AI take like, it's just going to be a completely different place. You're going to be interact. All the content is going to be written by row. Bots. Robots are gonna be reading it like we're just gonna be sitting there on the sidelines watching them do their fucking thing, like it's just kind of like not gonna be what it was. And I don't know where finding new readership is gonna come from, because the things that used to work for me are really kind of on their way out.

Michael David Wilson 20:27
I don't know if either of you have noticed, but if you ask a question or search for something that could lend itself to a question on Google, then these days, at the top is an AI generated answer, kind of trying to distill and to summarize from different websites what the answer to that question may be. So even these big platforms are shifting in the way in which they operate because of, you know, the emergence and the popularity of AI. And I think, like, like, basically, anything pertaining to technology AI could be good or could be bad, depending upon how it is used. You know, it is not, it is not good for, you know, creativity and for the arts and for writing, let, let's get that out the way before they're like, Whoa, This Is Horror. Is making a pro AI statement. No, I'm not. But, you know, I could see for for a very quick summation and an overview from Google, it could be useful to to a point. You know, it gives you a quick starting point. Probably not so good that it outweighs all of the disadvantages. But you know that there are some aspects that might be positive from it, but as it is managed and controlled by humans, there's your floor, they normally seem to fuck up everything anyway,

Danger Slater 22:04
no, I'm gonna say, but then the the AI is going to fuck everything up too. Because, like, it is just going to be taking bad information and then feeding it back into itself. Like, like, if Google is getting its information from articles to kind of give you an overview, and then they start having AI write articles instead of people. Then it's just self referencing itself. So there's really no veracity, or no way to verify this kind of information you I mean, I guess that's true of any information you read on the internet at any time, but at least like, at some point, you would assume the person who wrote the article was some sort of journalist, or someone who spent some time actually studying or learning about the thing that they're writing about or researching it, or something like You could at least have the knowledge that somebody cared enough to do the work.

Bob Pastorella 23:08
Yeah, even in my corporate setting, we have AI. We have our own search engine because we have, you know, promotional things and things like that. So we have our own search engine that we use, and they've incorporated AI into it. And literally, every time I search something, if I'm trying to find a promotion, like I have, customers have come in who, you know, talk to someone on the phone, say, hey, yeah, they said to look up this promotion. I'm like, Oh, good. You have the code, and so I'll punch it into the search engine. The first thing that comes up is a isn't an AI, aggregate explanation of the promotion. Don't tell you how to do it. This tells you what you get. And it's kind of like, at my level, a 12 year employee, that's kind of like, okay, that's the no shit part. I have to go to the next link, which actually takes me to the promotion, which is the info that I need. Like, how do I actually do this? Oh, and so to me that that's my own company has invested in this, and it's a complete and total waste of time. And if you read in our in our private forums that we have, there are 1000s of comments going, Why? Why did y'all do this? Man, you know, even new employees are like, This is dumb. We want the actual content. We don't want the aggregate of it. Thanks for the definition. Like, Oh, wow.

Danger Slater 24:32
Sorry. Someone's gonna have to build a new internet. That's what's gonna happen. This internet is gonna get ruined, and we're gonna need a second one that is like, not full of that. That is just like how it used to be. I sound like, I sound like an old person, just like it was better, but like it was, it's not even that. It was better. It worked. It used to work, and now it's like breaking it's all breaking down.

Bob Pastorella 24:58
It's the internet and. We need to have the so turn what's now into the internet, and then we'll have internet too. Yeah, I like that.

Michael David Wilson 25:12
Now shifting away from the internet, I believe that you have a new obsession, and you passion, and that is Kit Kats. And that can be verified for people watching the video, because there seems to be almost a Kit Kat Yeah, in your house. So yeah, talk us through this. Last time we spoke, it was the Guinness book of records that was the the interest, and now you have evolved to kit Kathe.

Danger Slater 25:47
I've realized something about myself over the past couple years, that it's I get, I kind of just start doing things without really putting a lot of forethought into it, and then I just start, just keep rolling with it, right? Like, like, a few years ago, I read a long book that was, it was a I read aunt kind by Charlie Kaufman. It's like an 800 page book, longest book I'd ever read at the point. And I said, Wow, I can't believe I read this long book. Hey, what if I only read long books for a whole year and see what happens. Didn't think about it, just started doing it, and then I spent the next year reading only books that were over 600 pages. So that was my thing. I read like, I only read like 15 books, I think, or 16 books that year, because they were all so long. But I spent a whole year reading long books, and I was like, Cool, I'm done. I Great. I did it great. And then I realized that I do this all the time, that I like start committing to bits that I didn't realize I was even setting a bit up for myself. And that's sort of what this kit kat thing is. Not that it is a bit because they're delicious candy bars. I've had so many at this point, but my my my partner, my girlfriend, had a subscription box to this snack company that would send international snacks to your house every month. And one month, I believe it was Japan, sent their box, and it had a few random kit Kathe flavors in it. Like, you know, not chocolate, but, like, strawberry or something, right? And I was just like, What the hell is this? You know, I ate it. Oh, it's delicious. And I was like, I didn't know they had that in Japan. Like, that's so weird. Let me, let me check this out. I looked it up. Apparently they have like over 200 flavors in Japan. So I was like, fuck it. I want to eat them all. So I started trying to eat them all. Try to try to get my hands on them, which is not an easy thing to do, because a lot of them are from other countries, but, yeah, I did this. I'm still doing it. I don't post about it like I used to, but I'm still eating them, and I'm up to about 70 or something like that, different flavors I've tried, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 28:16
before I came to Japan, I just knew of Kit Kat. And I think maybe they made Kit Kat Chunky, that was just, this is a Kit Kat, but bigger. And maybe they made Kit Kat dark, that was a marginally darker chocolate and a Kit Kat. But then coming to Japan, there's so many flavors, you know, to the point where I went back to the UK last year as a novelty, like for my family, I bought them loads of different kit caps, because, yeah, you have strawberry, as you mentioned, you have matcha, has stuff like orange Kit Kat. But there's even more kind of obscure flavors. There might even, at one point have been something like Earl Gray, who decides that is a good idea. But I think in Japan as well, there's a real thing about limited edition chocolate and people just lapping it up and buying it, and also seasonal chocolate. So there might be a flavor that is going to be popular in autumn of that kit, Kathe, but it but yeah, once autumn is over, that's it until next autumn. And it creates this urgency in this demand, which then helps you with the sales. But I think the takeaway for me is I've got to start, uh, photographing the kit caps and send them to you. And be like, Are there any missing from your collection? Buy that one, and then, like, build up a collection and send you some of these.

Danger Slater 29:59
I. Was, that's how I was getting so there was, there was a couple of different places I was getting them. I was, first of all, they started doing some limited edition ones in the states themselves. So we've had a we've had, like, breakfast cereal. It's like Fruit Loops flavored and churro and stuff like that. So, but I have a place called Ujamaa down the street that is a international, specifically Asian food market. And they usually have some there, so they will get, like, kind of a rotating stock of some there. And then there was an online place called sugi Omar, or something like that, that I would order them from, from Japan itself, that they would ship them over. We were spending a lot of money to get chocolate bars shipped internationally. I'm like, wow, it's like $30 in international customs shipping for like, $20 worth of candy bars. But I also started getting people to mail them to me too, like who had access to them. So I've had some really interesting flavors, like tons of different sake flavored ones, a wasabi one, which is was a lot better than I thought it would be the wasabi is actually kind of a subtle kind of, kind of, like hidden note, like, it was very much a white chocolate, but then this like, little spice would creep up in the back that, you know, you know, the wasabi spice, kind of, like sits in the back of your nose, a little, a little bit like, so you'd like, kind of feel it in the back of your throat that, like, that burn? Yeah, it's crazy. Like I said, I've had about 70 at this point, and they're all, they're almost all good.

Bob Pastorella 31:51
I'm really, I'm really curious, because I know, I know how candy is. My mom used to work for Hershey, and I know that. Have you ever tried like the regular Kit Kat, but International? In other words, like, you know, the regular flavor that we have here in the States is, is it, do you feel it's better, or do you, do you feel that it's like an inferior quality? The reason I bring that up is, like, prime example Cadbury egg, when think nesting bought them. The original Cadbury only had four ingredients. Now it has 18, because of, you know, in the US, they want to have a longer shelf life, so they put additives and preservatives in there. And so that way you have a candy that can come out during, you know, spring and last throughout all the way from the time it hits the stores, you know, past Easter and so without spoiling. And so is there a difference?

Danger Slater 32:50
I mean, yes, the thing, the thing is, though, a lot of the kit kats that are other flavors are using white chocolate as the base instead of the regular milk chocolate. So because I think it kind of the white chocolate kind of like lends itself to better flavor, like profile with with some random fruit or something, but so it's hard to say there, no, I don't know. I haven't really noticed a huge difference, to be perfectly honest. Yeah, like in between, between the chocolate varieties. The thing is, they all taste different to me. So right, yeah,

Bob Pastorella 33:33
it's just curious, because I, you know, I know people that have had, like, the old style Cadbury's, and they're like, the olds are way better than the news. But, you know, we're talking about one company, one candy. So it's

Danger Slater 33:45
like, it's like, Mexican coke too. In I mean, I don't know if you about, think about that, Michael, but in America, Mexican Coke is like, it comes in a glass bottle, and it's like, got real sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup. So it's, you know, it's like, you go to your Mexican restaurant, you're like, hell yeah, I actually want this coke. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 34:09
yeah, I have heard of that. It took my brain a while to realize that you were talking about Mexican Coca Cola. We had quite, quite the loop here. But no, I knew about that primarily because the old one of the former prime ministers of the UK, Rishi Sunak, he had a Coca Cola obsession, and he started talking about the virtues and benefits of Mexican Coca Cola. So that is the only reason that I knew about that. Yeah, it

Danger Slater 34:47
was supposed the same thing. Bob was saying, it's very much like less ingredients. It's just like sugar water, you know. So it's a much pure, like flavor version of of of what it's supposed to be, instead of the kind that they say. Having the vending machine that's full of whatever else they put into it, so it can sit in a vending machine for two years and still be good.

Bob Pastorella 35:07
Yeah, they did the same thing with Dr Pepper. You can get it with real cane sugar. You can get the old style Dr Pepper. And of course, you know which I don't drink because I'm a diabetic, and can have sugar, so have Dr Pepper's like zero or diet. But they they do have the ones with the cane sugar. And from what people have told me that it's like that. That's the good stuff, you know. So it's like, yeah, but even Dr Pepper I've been drinking, and you know that since I lose a little kid and it the flavors changed. If you want the old school Dr Pepper, you got to get a Mr. It. Mr. Pip, So,

Danger Slater 35:47
Michael, Michael, can I ask you this question too? Because I because you live, do you live in Japan still?

Michael David Wilson 35:53
Yeah, yeah, do I? I've

Danger Slater 35:55
heard that the Kit Kats are popular in Japan because it sounds like a kind of thing that people say when they say goodbye to each other, is that, is that true? I don't know. I wish I remembered exactly what it was, but it was like it like it sounds like I wish you well or something, or like something like that in the Japanese language, so that, so that people like to give them as little gifts, like when people leave,

Michael David Wilson 36:21
you are completely right. So the Japanese kit to Kathe is similar to kit to katsu, which means good luck. So there you go. We have confirmed it nice. And then in terms of kind of continuing to kit Kathe Fred and your passion for Kit Kats. If you're interested, what I'll start doing is I will actually start taking a photograph every time I see some Kit Kats and some different flavors, and then I'll post it in the discord channel, because I think other people will be interested too. And I'll tag you and be like, Are there any of these flavors that you haven't tried? And then I'll make a note of each one. And then when there's enough to, uh, minimize shipping and customs, because, like, I can make a kind of care package. If of kit, Kathe

Danger Slater 37:19
would be amazing. We would have a little feast here. I brought him to Stoker con. When I went a few years ago too, I'd had a little tasting, because we have, I have all these extras, because they come in, usually they don't. You can't buy, like, a single you got to get a whole bag. So I have all these extras. I was just like, I had them all out and, you know, sitting there talking about them and all the different flavor notes and stuff like, what I was really like in, I mean, I'm still into it, but I was, like, deep into it at first. I was like, trying to get them all, like, really, really quickly. So I was, I had this kind of, like working knowledge of all these flavors.

Bob Pastorella 37:56
I could see some kind of documentary, some British guy going and did, we're going to talk to dangerous Slater today, who is an expert in the console of kit cut. It's like they go into this my obsession started.

Danger Slater 38:12
I have, like, my turtleneck on, like every experts got to wear a turtleneck.

Michael David Wilson 38:20
But what is it that you're writing at the moment? What is the book that is currently in progress?

Danger Slater 38:30
Oh, yeah, I'm writing this book about this. I don't even know how to explain this. It's about this insufferable Neo liberal couple that wake up one day with this with umbilical cord stretching from their bellies to their garbage disposal, and they're trapped in their house by these umbilical cords, and they're starving to death, and they soon realize that they can only survive by feeding human blood and body parts to their garbage disposal. So they need to figure out who among their friends and acquaintances are worthy of living and who's worthy of becoming food so that they can sustain themselves. It's very, I don't even know if that makes sense. It's very much a social satire, kind of in the vein of like a like an American Psycho, but obviously surreal and with body horror stuff instead.

Michael David Wilson 39:40
So the they have an umbilical cord, and it is attached at a grace disposal, yeah, unit and but then they have to decide which of their friends will survive, which will be sacrificed. But then does that mean so can? Can they. Detach the umbilical cord so they can go about their day, and they're

Danger Slater 40:06
inviting people over to their house. Okay? So the husband is a invented a an app called backyards, which is sort of like next door, except it also hooks up to your ring doorbell, so that everyone can see through everyone else's doorbell. So it's like, next door, but everyone's also spying on everybody else. So it's like, but the idea is like, oh, but it's like, so that we have a nice, safe neighborhood, but it's also like, everyone's up in each other's business, and, you know, they're all secretly judgmental of each other, and these are the types of people that I'm very much making fun of, not making fun of, but examining, let's say, the types of people that I I work for. I do, like I said, I do dog walking and a lot of very well meaning but well off people are the types of people that are hiring someone to come walk their dogs, and I don't think they realize that their fact that they have money skews even though they are professing the right things they are, you know, very socially progressive minded, at least in what they're saying, the fact that they have money actually warps their actual world view in a way that I don't think a lot of them realize. So I'm kind of trying to examine that, that dichotomy where people say this one thing, but when it comes time to actually walk the walk, they can rationalize themselves out of this. So this is why they're kind of like, oh, we profess we, we like these types of of things. But then if I have to kill these people, this one did this thing, so they deserve to die like I have to make these hard decisions based off of what I think is right? I'm doing a terrible job of explaining this,

Unknown Speaker 42:06
but I

Michael David Wilson 42:08
know because you, you've really sold me my

Bob Pastorella 42:12
credit card ready? Yeah, I want to read this. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it is, it's, it's,

Danger Slater 42:22
it's transgressive in a way that I normally don't do. I'm not necessarily trying to be provocative when I write in a way that is like, let me try and push people their boundaries of what makes them feel comfortable. But this is a book that I am kind of doing that, I've been reading a lot of like Chuck Palahniuk and like Alyssa Nutting and ote moss MOSFET. I think her name is, these are people that are like, doing these kind of social satires with a with a horror bent to them. And I've just kind of been like, like, what would a dangerous Slater version of that be? Like, what would my version of doing a social satire be? And, of course, it involves body horror, because all of my books kind of go in that direction, because I can't help myself. So, yeah, yeah, I'm hoping. I'm hoping I hit the right tone, because if I don't, nobody's gonna want to publish like, it's a really fine line of like, like, like, I'm making fun of quote, unquote liberal people, because a lot of these people are not actually what they claim to be. And it is infuriating to me, someone who actually wants or sees what the kind of hypocritical nature of all this. It's kind of infuriating to be like, I love what you say, but I don't like you or the way you're saying it or like, what I don't know, like, it's we'll see, we'll see what it looks like when I'm done. I think it's turning out really good, but at the same time, I'm pretty nervous about it.

Bob Pastorella 44:15
It's good to be nervous about it. Yeah, because that means that you're doing, like, what I was talking about earlier, you're getting you're doing something that that is maybe provocative, is the right word. You know,

Danger Slater 44:27
every time I sit down, I wish I say to myself, what would be a great, awesome commercial idea that would get me 10s, hundreds of 1000s of readers, and then I come up with something and then write the exact opposite of that, because I'm an asshole who can't help myself. I just can't get excited about that idea enough to write it, I have to do the thing that speaks to me, which is usually the weirdest or most like difficult thing.

Bob Pastorella 44:59
Michael. David Wilson goes through that every, every draft, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 45:04
yeah. The the amount of times I've been like, right this time, I'll write something commercial, and then, like, I'll just add an element, like a calisthenic sex cult. And it's like, well, now, now you've spoiled it, haven't you? This is not gonna be the mainstream thing that you wanted it to but, yeah, if I just try to write something mainstream, then it's so boring and so in authentic and just so so obvious the reasons that I'm doing it, and so you're far more likely to be successful doing that weird idea that you 100% believe in, because also, I mean the ideas that become really popular, as we said earlier, they're never a copycat. It's something that is original and something that is unique. So you just have to continue doing these weird ideas, and if you do enough, then maybe you'll land upon one which will make you considerable money, and maybe you won't, but at least you had fun doing it, and you know, you didn't sell out.

Bob Pastorella 46:17
Yeah, I wrote a novella during the summer that started off because I'm extremely fearful of home invasion. That's, you know, because just, you can sit there and just read a couple of those real life accounts, and you realize that this can happen to anyone at any time, and so, and that's, that's, it scares me, I mean, like, that's a fear that I have, and I wanted to explore that. And of course, it turned out to be something that is, you know, quite funny, but also probably some of the most violent shit I've ever written in my entire life. Because the idea is, like, how do I make this different? How do I make it stand out? How do I make it weird? And I said, fucking I'm going all in. So I took a very something that could have been very, very commercial, you know, and now I don't know anybody who would, who would publish it, because it's fucking violent, man, there's parts in there that I couldn't finish. I mean, I had to write over several nights because I was just like, God damn. But I'm like, Okay, I'm pushing it, you know, it's the only way I'm gonna get anybody to like my characters, believe it or not, it's, you know, the antagonist or the protagonist so

Danger Slater 47:30
crazy. It's just like, there's like, and I don't know about you guys, but like, I try to think of the stuff that really resonates with me, the kind of movies that I love, or the books that I love that have that kind of echo into my soul. And it's never the popular stuff. It like, it never is like, oh, maybe not true. But there's occasionally, like, a popular thing that hits me, but like a lot of times, it's like, I'm going out of my way to watch movies that I feel like I'm trying to discover something, instead of, like, just saying, like, oh yeah, Transformers 11 is out. Like, let me turn my brain off and watch transformers 11. Like, there's a time and place for that. Like, not everything needs to be a fucking challenge to your brain. But at the same time, it's not like it's, I'm not out there saying this is my favorite movie or the best thing that's ever happened, right? There's, there's the real shit is not popular by design, and that's something I've always consumed. And I don't know why I would be making anything different, right? Like when it comes down to it, aside from the fact that there's a part of me that goes make something that people want to read because you want to get paid and not walk rich people's dogs anymore, like you want to get you want to make art that can provide for you. You know, you that's, that's the goal of every I mean, maybe that's not the goal of every artist, but that is one of the goals. When you, when you write something, you say, I want people to read it. And the way people are reading it is by buying it like so it kind of goes hand in hand. So there is this part of me that's always like, how do I do that? And then it's but it's never the thing I want to actually write. It's never the thing I want to write. And I don't even know if I it would be able to, like, even if I came up with the most commercial idea, like, I don't know if I could do it like maybe I'm not that type of person. Maybe I am just like a little freaky weirdo, and I should just really embrace that, instead of trying to wish that I was a type of artist that everyone you know that my grand. Could be into, like, maybe I shouldn't be trying to make arts that grandmas could be into. Maybe I should make art that makes grandmas upset, you know, or as many people as upset as possible, like, who cares? Like, whatever, speaking to me like I should just be following that and not thinking about that. I'm pep talking myself as we go, I'm kind of like examining this as we're talking. So

Michael David Wilson 50:29
I think there's a lot of truth in terms of what you're saying. And I mean, the the thing I think is, like I said before, I think the more that you write that's like tickets to the lottery, that's tickets to something good happening. So I'll just keep writing more of these weird books, and I'll hope that eventually maybe one will speak to enough people, or I know army hammer will read it, and then it will go viral for all the wrong reasons, but that will end up with with curiosity and sales, or maybe one of them will be made into a movie, and the movie is much more commercial than the book, and then that kind of works out, or you get royalties on the back of that. So it only takes one book, but a sure fire guarantee to not have it happen is if you just stop writing. You know some people, they didn't go, these ideas aren't commercial, so I'm just gonna give up. I'm just losing. And it's like, well, if you give up, you've definitely lost. But if you keep writing, you're giving yourself a chance every single time. And I think what you said about not being able to write a commercial book, it's probably true in the sense that neither of us can write a commercial book authentically because we don't believe in it. So I don't know maybe the people who who write it, and they do well, and they're a success, they do believe in it, and you know, that's not for us, like if you write a commercial one, that's got to be at least one joke that is derogatory towards Richard gear. And even that could be enough that that people are out. So, yeah, I just, I just think, keep doing what you're doing. You know, you're one of my favorite writers. I always have a good time when I'm reading your stuff, and it's because you are you, rather than you trying to be a writer, that you're not. So yeah, keep on doing it. I

Danger Slater 52:43
love that. Thank you so much. That's awesome. I you know, I'm also sitting here, like, calling myself danger Slater. I'm, like, already self selecting my self, selecting myself out of so many people's minds, because they're gonna be like, What the fuck is that? Like, I'm like, I'm not gonna read a book by someone who calls himself danger. But then there's a bunch of people that are gonna go, actually, I'm 100% gonna read a book because this guy's called himself danger. Like, I need to know what that is. So, you know, I'm I'm just gonna dig in. That's my that's my path forward. That's what I'm seeing. I'm just gonna dig into the to the danger Ness.

Michael David Wilson 53:23
You know, we've never actually asked about the danger name origin story. We asked last time about why you were the world's most flammable writer. But I think the question for this podcast is, why danger Slater?

Danger Slater 53:41
oh, this is this was barely talked about this. This is a nickname that has been around for like, 20 years. For me, it wasn't when I started writing, I kind of reclaimed it. It wasn't like everyone was calling me this for a long time, but when I was in the high school. I don't know if you remember jackass, but this was very Jackass was very popular. So we were, we were those kinds of kids that like to fuck around, like, like those guys, and we weren't afraid to kind of run around and hurt ourselves. The thing is, the the the the name itself came from I, I was on a date with this girl, and we went ice skating, and I didn't know how to ice skate, and I kept falling over, like, in a really comical way I was, I was a gangly dude, and, like, my legs would be like and kicking, and I would slip and I'd fall. And it got to the point where the ref at the ice skating rink pulled me aside and told me I was be I was a danger to everybody else on the ice, because I kept falling and getting in the way. And I told. The story to my friends, and they thought it was very, very funny, so they started calling me that ironically, because they're like, Oh, you're like, a goofball who can't even stand up, right? But, but I kind of internalized it, right? So I was like, Yeah, I'm dangerous later. That's like, my nickname now. So then I started being like, more outgoing to match the nickname itself. So then, when we were started messing around, like we said, like I said, we were into Jackass and all these other things, I would be the one who was instigating or pushing myself further or doing the thing that was the stupidest thing, or the thing that was gonna hurt myself because I went, Wait a minute, I'm danger. That's, that's what I'm doing. That's, that's who I am. So let me do that thing. So there was a couple years there where, like, I was embodying this, like, shitty amateur stunt man mindset, all because I couldn't ice skate and when I was trying to impress a girl. So it's a very long way of saying when I started writing

in 2010 or so, I wanted to pick a I wanted to pick a pen name. I mean, I could have used my real birth name, but I picked this as my pen name, or reclaim my nickname, because I wanted my writing to feel like that person that I was when I was pushing myself, going, Yeah, I'll be the one who, who will get in the shopping cart. You push me down the hill. I don't care like to be, to be the one who's like, I'm not afraid of anything. And I don't want my fiction to be afraid of anything, and when I get in front of people as as an author and put myself out there to not be afraid of anything that's coming my way. So I once again, tried to reclaim this nickname and give it a power that I could then follow, which you know, to varying degrees of success. I think I've done so.

Michael David Wilson 57:07
So not being able to ice skate was basically the best thing that has ever happened

Danger Slater 57:12
to us. It was, yeah, it was actually really embarrassing. We didn't, we didn't go out very much after that, me and that girl, so it didn't really work out.

Michael David Wilson 57:26
Man, it didn't matter, because you were dangerous later, yeah, you only went for for dangerous people, dangerous things. No, I love that, and I can see how you're the danger pen name does extend to your writing. I mean, yeah, it is fearless. I mean, who the hell else is gonna write an entire novella about like a mushroom infected house, and you know all that you've done with starlet as well. So yeah, it totally works. I want to know from the Year of Reading longer books, has that made you want to write a longer book? Because I think you're known for writing novellas and shorter works, but I wondered what that did for you, and if it even changed how you approach your C story.

Danger Slater 58:27
I don't know if it's made me want to write a longer book, but it did. It did show me something actually very interesting, which is that, okay, most books are 300 pages. That's like, kind of the like, Simon and Schuster a hard cover. It needs to be 300 pages, or, you know, between 250 let's say, and 400 so there's like, a little window of, like, that's how long books are. They're not novellas, like the stuff that the Big Five is publishing, and they're not these giant Tomes, unless you're writing high fantasy or you're already a famous writer who can write giant Tomes. So the thing that I learned was that books that are 600 pages or more are usually that long, because they need to be that long, right? These are stories that have a lot to them and need that space to breathe. They're not padded. 600 page books aren't padded. 1000 page books aren't padded. They're that long because they're epics. 300 page books are padded novellas. So often like it's because people are going, I have an idea. It's not this gigantic, epic idea that could fill a tome. It is basically just an idea that I need to fill 300 pages. So a lot of books that are 300 pages would really do better. Uh, or read better if they cut 100 pages from them. So ironically, reading long books made me realize that regular life books are too long. It should be no malice.

Michael David Wilson 1:00:15
Now I can see that, and I've even known of writers who have told me that, you know, they had to extend a book because their publisher told them to. They told them to insert more scenes to make it more commercially viable. And I mean, I think as well, we've all, yeah, we've all read books as you, as you've said, Well, we felt this could be tighter. So I wonder how much of that is because of edible editorial interference, and how much is like, I think some people like falsely. They get this perception like, oh, it has to be novel length to be a proper book. Like they trick themselves into these, these weird things, you know, not normally, like starting out right as, I think anyone who's been in the the game for long enough doesn't, doesn't think like that, but as almost like that societal perception, I think. But yeah, it's,

Danger Slater 1:01:18
I'm not saying every 300 page book needs to be 150 pages, but I'm just saying, like, I do see it all the time, exactly what you're saying. It feels, a lot of them feel padded, like so padded. I'm like, I'm like, Just get to the point. Like, get to the story, you know. But this is just a personal thing, but I hate and this is something popular books do, like that, that thing where, like, I feel like the publisher or the agent, or whoever, the editor, doesn't trust the audience to get into the story, if You don't start with an action scene, like an out of context action scene, like, here's something that's gonna happen, like, and it's already, like, a few pages, but it'll be like, here's something that's gonna happen later in the book, or something, you know, and it's like, I don't know, like, start at the beginning. Don't like, give me, I hate when movies do it too. When they start with, like, an action scene out of context, and they stop and go, Oh, I bet you wondering how I got here. Like, no, like, don't, don't do it. Just start at the beginning of wherever the story actually starts. Like, this is just a personal gripe.

Bob Pastorella 1:02:37
I could be, yeah, it's, it's, like, it's, it's a, it's the PROLOG thing where you have to have a prolog. And here's thing, I don't have a problem with prologs. I just wish they were more effective, yeah, like, you know, Let The Right One In has a beautiful Prolog that basically is a third person narration from the POV of the little town that they're moving into. And you get to see, you know, like a fly on the walls view of, you know, Eli and hawk and whoever's name is moving into their new home at night. And it's not from any other character's point of view. It's from the city. And I think it's actually called the city, and it's, it's a beautiful little piece that really kind of sets the mood and sets the tone. And that's a rarity. You don't see that. Now, I used to think that gigantic novels were padded, because I got into this mode where, like, you know, hey, yeah, a lot of these novels could actually be novellas. And it tempered my feelings of books that I'd read younger and re read. I like classic examples it because, you know, I revisited that on the website, on, you know, my tattered tones, and I kind of disparaged it. I've read it since then, and I think that every single page in that book matters. You know, I would probably, I should probably write another revisit about it, because it matters. There's stories within stories that if one of those stories is taken away, it makes the whole book fall apart. And so my opinion of that has changed. Are there padded 1000 page books? Sure, but it's the scope of the story that that makes it if you have an epic scope, then you need epic length. That sounded really bad, but yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:04:27
you know what I mean, yeah,

Danger Slater 1:04:30
yeah, I'm with you with it. I that was, I read that one during that year for the first time, and I thought that it was one of the best books I've ever read. So, yeah, I didn't think there's, I was it's like 1100 or 1200 words pages, I mean, but I don't think there's a wasted, uh, there's a wasted word in there.

Bob Pastorella 1:04:53
Yeah, my opinion of it has changed. And, I mean, it's interesting, my opinion of it's likely changed. I have the right. Changed my mind, but as a as of right now, I feel like I gave it a bad rap. You know, 10 years ago or six years ago, whenever I last reread it, I'll probably reread it again. It's a great book, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 1:05:17
all right, well, it's just been a tremendous pleasure chat and with you as it was the previous time. So thank you very much for spending so long. Yeah, but I wonder. I mean, where can our listeners connect with you?

Danger Slater 1:05:37
Um, Instagram or Twitter? I don't know. You know what? If you type danger Slater into Google, I'm the only one that's gonna come up. So pick your social media of choice, and you could follow me at any of those, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or none of them. Just type my name in because it'll also go to my Amazon page where the books are being sold. So,

Michael David Wilson 1:06:07
all right, do you have any final thoughts for our listeners and viewers?

Danger Slater 1:06:13
No, I don't know. I feel like I've said every word that I know they're all out. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 1:06:21
there you go. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank

Danger Slater 1:06:25
you. Thank you both.

Michael David Wilson 1:06:30
Thank you so much for listening to danger. Slater on. This Is Horror. Join us again next time when we will be welcoming back David Moody to talk about his latest book, Shadow locked now, if you would like that and every conversation ahead of the crowd, become our patron@patreon.com forward slash. This Is Horror. Not only do you get early bird access to each and every episode, but you can submit questions to the interviewee, and in terms of future conversations, we will soon be talking to Eric la rocker and Richard jesma. So if you have a question for either of them, patreon.com forward slash. This Is Horror. Okay, before I wrap up, a quick advert break in 1867

Andrew Love 1:07:27
the young Samantha gray marries the infamous Captain Jakes unleashing a series of brutal horrors in this epic splatter Western from Death's Head press mayhem. Sam by J D grays is a rip roaring tall tale of revenge, drags a coffin full of gold across the hellscape of reconstruction Texas and explodes at the top of a mountain. You better read this one with lights on.

Cosmic Horror Monthly 1:07:55
Are you a reader with an insatiable appetite for creeping dread? Do you hunger for fiction of an eldritch nature? Try cosmic horror monthly, a magazine dedicated to publishing the very best in cosmic horror and weird fiction. Ch M offers tomes in digital and print, and when you subscribe today, your first print copy is free. Hurry. Before the stars finally

Michael David Wilson 1:08:25
align. I used to end these episodes with a quote without really making any comment, but I decided that I want to start looking at various bits of writing advice and so called inspirational quotes, and giving my take as to how useful I think these quotes actually are. And so recently, I saw somebody post this quote from Dan pointer, if you wait for inspiration to write, you're not a writer, you're a waiter. I don't know what you think to that, but I think that quote is incredibly flawed. Now I understand the spirit and the good intentions of the quote. Essentially, don't wait for inspiration to strike start writing, seize the moment, then inspiration will follow. Now, that is good advice, I think. You know, likewise, don't just wait around, create opportunities. Seek out your passion, your inspiration. You know, get inspired. Watch good art, read good art, listen to music that excites you. Go for a walk, visit places, whatever it is that gets you in a good mood, that gets you in a creative mood. So there is. Something if you dig deeper, if you almost add caveats to the quote, but just taking it at face value, something about it rubs me the wrong way. If you wait for inspiration to write and then you write, you are still a writer. Every moment you are not writing does not mean you are not a writer. If you write, you are a writer. So the quote is simplistic and unhelpful, added to which those who seek out inspiration rarely just wait. They are active in seeking inspiration. And isn't everyone who writes inspired in some way, isn't the act of writing an inspired act? This idea of opposing writing and inspiration is ludicrous. So the helpful takeaway is to write regularly, to write even on those days you're not so inspired or infused, but to tell you that moments you're not writing, or on the days that you're not writing, you're no longer a writer. It's bullshit. Very few writers write every day, and there have been an enormous amount of hugely popular of hugely talented writers who took breaks from writing, extended breaks. Fitz Gerald Virginia Woolf John Steinbeck, they all took breaks from writing. Are you gonna tell me that they want writers? Mr. Dan pointer. Well, he's not gonna tell me, because he's actually passed away. But the point is that if you wait for inspiration to write, and then you write, you're a writer. You're just waiting at the moment where you're waiting, much like I'm waiting if I'm waiting a supermarket, and it doesn't mean it defines me. I'm not then perpetually a waiter. Well, if you have a quote that you want me to consider and comment on, send me an email. Michael at this is horror.co.uk. Is this what you want to hear at the end of each episode, I know you let me know. But what I do know is this episode is done, so I will see you in the next one with David Moody. But until then, take care of yourselves. Be good to one another. Read horror. Keep on writing and have a great, Great Day.