TIH 604: Wesley Southard on The Better to Eat You With, Threesome, and Meeting Brian Keene

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TIH 604 Wesley Southard on The Better to Eat You With, Threesome, and Meeting Brian Keene

In this podcast, Wesley Southard talks about his brand new book, The Better to Eat You With, Threesome, meeting Brian Keene, and much more.

About Wesley Southard

Wesley Southard is the two-time Splatterpunk Award-Winning and Imadjinn Award-Winning author of The Betrayed, Closing Costs, One for the Road, Resisting Madness, Slaves to Gravity, Cruel Summer, Where the Devil Waits, The Final Gate, Try Again, They Mostly Come at Night, Disasterpieces, and The Better to Eat You With, as well as numerous short stories in various markets. Several of his works have also been translated into Italian and Spanish. He is a graduate of the Atlanta Institute of Music and he currently lives in South Central Pennsylvania with his wife and son.

Show notes

Click the timestamps to jump straight to the audio.

[3:00] Conversation start and early life lessons.
[8:35] Music and heavy metal.
[16:35] Introduction to horror.
[32:05] Threesome.
[39:55] Meeting Brian Keene.

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Mayhem Sam by J.D. Graves

Mayhem Sam is a rip-roaring tall-tale of revenge that drags a coffin of stolen confederate gold across the hellscape of Reconstruction Texas, the red dirt plains of Oklahoma, and explodes at the top of a Colorado mountain. Mayhem Sam is the true story of Texas’s tallest tale and its deepest, darkest legend.

The Girl in the Video by Michael David Wilson, narrated by RJ Bayley

Listen to The Girl in the Video on Audible in the US here and in the UK here.

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Michael David Wilson 0:28
Welcome to This Is Horror, a podcast for readers, writers and creators. I'm Michael David Wilson, and every episode, alongside my co host, Bob Pastorella, we chat with the world's best writers about writing, life lessons, creativity and much more. Today we are talking to Wesley suffered about his latest book, The better to eat you with. Wesley is the two time splatter punk, award winning author of a number of books and stories, including one for the road, the betrayed, Cruel Summer, the final gate disaster pieces and the aforementioned and brand new, the better to eat you with. He is a graduate of the Atlanta Institute of Music, and He currently lives in south central Pennsylvania with his wife and son. So before we get on with a conversation with Wesley, a quick advert break

Andrew Love 1:43
in 1867 the young Samantha gray marries the infamous Captain Jakes, unleashing a series of brutal horror in this epic splatter Western from Death's Head press man Sam by J, D, grays is a rip roaring tall tale of revenge, drags a coffin full of gold across the hellscape of reconstruction Texas and explodes at the top of a mountain. You better read this one with lights on. It

RJ Bayley 2:13
was as if the video had unzipped my skin, slunk inside my tapered flesh and become one with me

Bob Pastorella 2:22
from the creator of This Is Horror. Comes a new nightmare for the digital age. The Girl in the Video by Michael David Wilson, after a teacher receives a weirdly arousing video, his life descends in a paranoia and obsession. More videos follow, each containing information no stranger could possibly know, but who's sending them and what do they want? The answers may destroy everything and everyone he loves. The Girl in the Video is the ring meets fatal attraction for the iPhone generation, available now in paperback, ebook and audio. Okay

Michael David Wilson 2:51
with that said, Here it is. It is Wesley suffered on This Is Horror. You Where's Welcome to This Is Horror. Oh,

Wesley Southard 3:06
man, thanks for having me, guys. I've really been very excited to be on here for a long time.

Michael David Wilson 3:11
Yeah, this has been a long time coming. And, I mean, we thought with your latest collection, the better to eat you with we had to get you on. These are three amazing stories that we're certainly gonna dissect and get into. But thank you. Yeah, yeah. As as I often do, I want to know what were some of the early life lessons that you learned growing up, and they don't necessarily have to pertain to writing. It can be anything that was of value during those formative years.

Wesley Southard 3:50
I think maybe a lot of just being a good person in general, I don't know it's that's that is actually an interesting question. I think just like treating people how you want to be treated. I think that's that's always been very important to me. I don't, I don't see any any reason to be mean to people, just to be mean, like I'm not that type of person. I never have been that type of person. I tend to be kind of overly nice to strangers, maybe to a fault sometimes, but I think just being kind to people is something maybe my my parents taught me very early on that has stuck with me, and maybe even I don't know, is swelled. I guess the older I get, especially now that I have a child, I guess it just kind of feels good to be nice to people and to be a good person. I guess I know is as much as like that feels like I'm tooting my own horn saying something like that, but like, I don't know, like, I remember, just recently, I had to call the unemployment office about something because my work we had gotten laid off for like. A couple weeks or something, and I remember being on the phone with the unemployment office. And you know, those people probably hear everything every day on the phone, and they get called every name in the book, and probably deal with a lot of crap, like people at the DMV or any other kind of government service, but I remember just being as absolutely nice this person as possible, and thanking them profusely for their work and thanking them for helping me and and I could tell in their voice that they were just very relieved by that, because they're used to being just treated like crap. So it's just, it's I try to be as kind as I can to people and to do good things, and to try to hope that those type of people pass it on, you know, I guess you know. And then something like is silly is something as simple as like, I remember my dad very early on teaching me how to do like a proper handshake. I know that sounds silly, but like a good, firm handshake when you're shaking someone's hand, kind of goes a long way to, I guess. I don't know if that really means anything, but that's just something that kind of just popped in my head. But yeah, I think, I think just being, just being a kind person, is something that that was really instilled in me at an early, early age that I've I've tried to stick with my my entire life up to now. So that's, that's, that's kind of, that's kind of my, my, uh, stance on things.

Michael David Wilson 6:31
And I wonder, when you were growing up, did you see like your parents either being kind to other people or kind of handling difficult situations in a way that was inspiring, or, you know, sometimes it goes the other way. I mean, it doesn't sound like it was like that with your parents, but perhaps you had a teacher or someone who was doing the opposite, and you were like, well, that's not who I want to be. I mean,

Wesley Southard 6:59
I don't know it's again. That's another good question. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think it was beat. I think it was like growing up around people that were kind of assholes sometimes, like just people in school or or just seeing it on TV or whatever. And I just kind of saw that and didn't like it, and decided kind of early on that I didn't want to be like that. And I didn't, I didn't think that was cool. I, you know, I've never even been I've never really drank or anything, either, but I've been around it, maybe not necessarily my family, but I've been around alcoholics and stuff, and I've seen the way that people like that act and it just never, never made me want to be like that. So I just kind of stayed away from like that, at that, that kind of addictive stuff and and tried to keep a good attitude about just life in general. I think at least, at least, I think so. I'm sure if you asked my wife, she'd give you a different answer. But yeah, I think it's, I don't know if it was necessarily my, my like immediate family, but I mean, everybody in my family was always pretty, pretty kind and generous to most people. So I think that attitude just kind of rolled over to me, you know? And yeah, I think, I think that's just, I think it was just the environment that I grew up in was just kind of the normal, normal environment. It wasn't anything hectic or crazy. I didn't have parents who were, you know, beating on each other or anything. So I think it was just good role models and that kind of rubbing off on me.

Michael David Wilson 8:36
And before we went on air, we were talking a lot about heavy metal. And of course, I know that originally your aspiration was to be a musician you played in various bands. So I mean, with you talking about not really drinking a lot, and knowing that in the metal scene that there's a lot of drinking, there's a lot of substances, there's a lot of, oh yeah, partying was that difficult for you? Did you kind of come under a lot of pressure? I mean, how did you handle that environment?

Wesley Southard 9:14
Oh yeah. I mean, I started playing guitar in, I think, junior high or high school. I can't remember which, I think it was junior high. And of course, the guys that I was running around with started playing at the same time. And of course, they were, they were big potheads, and they were drinking and stuff all the time. And it was, you know, we jammed together, but we weren't ever really in a band much, but they it was always like that, Oh, come on, man, don't be lame. Like, you know, Do this, do that. And I just kind of stayed away from it. But then by the time I got into college, I went to music school, the Atlanta Institute of Music in Atlanta, Georgia. I and then, like, it was just constant partying at the school, like constant partying because, like, most of the kids in our school all stayed in the same up. Apartment complex, and the two guys below us, directly below where I was in my apartments, were it was like Party Central, and it was constant, drinking all night, music all night, just loud, talking, screaming. I remember they brought another musician in that wasn't in our school, but a friend of theirs that brought a saxophone, and at like, three in the morning were playing saxophone out in the hallways, and there were other families staying there like it was insanity, like people like punching walls and smashing beer bottles everywhere it was. It was as stupid as it sounds, but it is, it was. It was, it was a lot of fun, though, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, being a musician is an interesting life. It's an interesting lifestyle. Like I, I wanted to be a musician so bad for so long, and I wanted to go to school for and I wanted to basically just be in a metal band, and I wanted to be in a metal band the rest of my life. It was life. It was funny. I remember very specifically in one of my classes that the teachers were going around asking each student like, well, what's your what's your, your, know, your end goal? Like, what do you want to do with your life and music? And people are like, oh, I want to be a music teacher. I want to I want to teach kids, or I want to be a studio musician, or I want to do this, or I want to do that, and I my blatant answer was, I want to live on tour of us the rest of my life. And I was kind of looked at like the weird one, which was, which was strange, obviously, that didn't work out. But, I mean, I had a great time there, and I had learned a lot of, you know, life lessons of what was like to live out of my own, out of college, you know, like eight hours away from home, which was, you know, really good. I think more kids should try that. Yeah, I think, I think a lot of being a musician kind of formed my, my, my, my lifestyle, I guess, or like going forward and then eventually becoming a writer. You know, it's, it's, it's kind of that obsessive personality thing of wanting to to create something. And I think that's what kind of helped me become a writer, was to kind of be able to focus singularly on something and try to craft it like the best you can.

Michael David Wilson 12:23
Yeah, and I know the previously you've spoken about falling out of love with being a musician, but I don't think you've ever really gone into the details there. So I'm wondering, what was it that made you decide actually that wasn't the lifestyle that you wanted.

Wesley Southard 12:45
Um, I kind of realized after I moved back home from school that I'm not gonna that I'm not gonna sit here and blame the school, because the school was great. The teachers were great, the programming was great, that the people that that went to the school were great. It was just kind of a matter of of realizing, after I got home, that finding other dedicated musicians that could be on the same page to play the same type of music that you want to play was the hardest thing possible for someone in your early 20s, even though it should have been easy, but, you know, I live in a town where there's not a lot. I lived in a town that where there wasn't a lot of that, so it just, I kind of realized that it just probably wasn't gonna happen. Yeah, I could have gone into teaching, or I could have gone into, you know, maybe moved to Nashville or something, and been a studio musician, if I was lucky or something, because I could have had some I with that school. I could have had some different, like, connections with that, but I just that wasn't my passion. And when I kind of knew that that passion wasn't really going to go anywhere, at least musically, that's kind of when I started making the switch to, what can I do that is creative, that that that I could do, you know, that would be by myself, that I would could do, you know, where I would have to rely on other people and and once I discovered writing, which is, you know, its own story of how that happened, it really kind of fell into place, and I realized how much I loved it. And then after several years of doing it, realizing, okay, I might actually have something in this. So

Michael David Wilson 14:27
yeah, and it's clear that whilst you decided to get into writing in terms of putting your own creative energy into the world, that you've never lost your passion for heavy metal. I mean, we were really getting into it with the bands and the discussions that we were having off air. No, but I wonder, do you ever have the urge to kind of scratch that itch again? It's like one more gig, one more time. Yeah, do. Get the boys back together, or get a new band. I was

Wesley Southard 15:04
only ever in one band, and it was in high school, and we played one gig the band, I don't think I've ever even told anybody the band name out loud, other than the people that I went to school with. We were a three piece band called cemetery symphony, so you can tell how high school that is

Michael David Wilson 15:22
very Pantera. Oh, yeah, it was,

Wesley Southard 15:25
it was, it was so metal. It was so metal, it was so it was so high school metal. Yeah, I occasionally get the itch for it, but it's I just realized that this is just not gonna go anywhere. I could go downstairs to my basement and pick my guitar up and, you know, learn that riff that I just heard, a song that I really like, and kind of get that itch out. But you have the itch to to get a band together and to go tour or something that, yeah, that's that's not going to happen, that that lifestyle is long gone. I got a I got a day job and a wife and a kid and a dog. Yeah, I can't, I can't. I don't think I could do it. I just, I don't think that that passions in me anymore, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 16:12
yeah. Well, going back to your passion for writing, for reading and for horror, I believe that it's kind of a combination between both of your parents, and it was your father who got you into horror movies and your mother who got you into books. So let's talk a little bit about that. Yeah, absolutely. Uh,

Wesley Southard 16:37
so my dad, when I was younger, yet, you're right, was the one that got me into the movies, which is funny, because he can't watch any of them anymore. He doesn't like much horror anymore, but when I was younger, he was definitely like, oh man, you should check out this movie like this about exorcisms. Is called The Exorcist, or are you got to check out these, these weird movies called evil dad. They're really funny when I was a kid, or, you know, things like that. Oh God, the animals are fighting now, Jesus Christ, get out of here.

Michael David Wilson 17:08
It's like the end of one of your stories. Right, right. Yeah,

Wesley Southard 17:11
right, yeah. My wife is out of the house right now. She's picking up her kid from from something, and the dog desperately wants out, and he's fighting with the cat now. Yeah, so, so, yeah. Dad got me into the the movies and stuff, even though he's not really much into that stuff these days, my mom was always the big reader, and she was, you know, I remember growing up her reading a lot of Stephen King, obviously. And it wasn't always just horror, like, she didn't read a lot of horror, necessarily, but she read a lot of Stephen King. I remember her reading a lot of John Grisham, a lot of James Patterson. She loves James Patterson, even though I'm convinced that James Patterson doesn't write his own books. You know, am I gonna get in trouble for saying that?

Michael David Wilson 17:54
I I don't know. I don't know. Is the answer to that. I mean, I don't think James Patterson listens to the podcast. Well,

Wesley Southard 18:04
it will ask him next week when he's on, yeah, yeah.

Michael David Wilson 18:08
But I think, you know, actually, with James Patterson, I mean, there's a number of his books that I'm pretty sure he's admitted he hasn't written, or it's like, yeah, it's kind of, you know that there's another author with James Patterson. So yes, his input is minimal these days. I mean, he certainly used to write his own books. From what I understand, I wasn't there next to him. I didn't see him write them. But yeah, I

Wesley Southard 18:40
wonder how that works. I wonder how that works with him. Because he's got, he's got his name real big on the book, and then this tiny little name at the bottom of somebody else. And I got to imagine that maybe he's just like, Okay, here's the idea for the book go, and then they just do it. And then, then, I don't know that's, that's what I had mentally, that's what comes to me when I think of like his stuff, but I don't know, but I don't know. We just went on James Patterson tan, my apologies to the James Patterson fans,

Michael David Wilson 19:09
yeah, yeah, we kind of speculating. So yeah,

Wesley Southard 19:16
my mom was the big reader, and she kind of got me into reading. And, you know, when I was growing up, I was, you know, I'm a millennial. I'm 30 7am. I 37 I'm 37 you know, I was reading goose bumps in the 90s. I was, you know, reading the scary stories, telling the dark books. I still have all three of my original copies behind me over here, the paperbacks that are falling apart. Those were, those were my big introduction. My mom always wanted me to read too. You know, when I was in high school, I was reading. I really, I was one of the weird kids in school that actually enjoyed literature class, like the stuff we had to read, like the Hobbit or One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Or, you know. Obi Dick, or whatever I actually or what the hell is that one? What's the Why am I blanking? Harper? Harper Lee, why am I blanking on the title of the book? Now, to kill him. Kill him as blanking. But even that, like these books, I really enjoyed reading while the other kids were complaining and bitching and moaning about it. See, I've always been, I've always been a big reader, but I think that definitely, that definitely came from my from my mom, for sure, which I'm thankful for. You know, I think, I think reading is even as silly as it sounds, as a writer saying this like I think reading is very, very important. You know, I've got a I've got a child who's going to be three on Monday, and since even before he was born, we have 1000 books in his room for him, like we've got. He's got two bookshelves full of books. And I've made it a mission the last couple years to collect all the original goosebumps books from my youth, all of the all of the original run with the original covers and and I'm missing like four of them, but I've got almost the entire thing, and I'm hoping he'll like them, but Knowing my luck, I'd be like, Oh, he's a stupid Dad. Thanks for nothing. So we'll see how that turns out.

Michael David Wilson 21:12
Well, I think whether he does or doesn't like the Goosebumps books, I mean that they're classics to have in your collection anyway, yeah. And I mean, it's interesting that your father introduced you to so many horror movies, but now he can't actually watch them. And I wonder too, has your taste softened, or have you found, I suppose, particularly post parenting, that there are some themes or horror movies that are harder to to watch or to read about? I mean, there's certainly been a shift in terms of almost the mode of of writing. I mean, we're gonna get to that lung fiction collection. I believe it is in order, in terms of when you wrote each piece, I mean, and certainly even the jump from one for the road, which goodness, it's like you threw all sorts of splatter punk and bizarro into it and then Threesome despite the title is a much more understated, poignant piece and a reflection on humanity and fatherhood and relationships and yeah, Yeah, there's, there's definitely. It's a different type of horror, if we're even to cool it horror. I

Wesley Southard 22:46
mean, it's, it's, it's, I wouldn't necessarily call it horror as is it like as horror that we all kind of come to think of as horror, but, but your original question, yeah, I I'd say my tastes have changed a lot since I become a parent. And it's weird, it's not necessarily movies that were my my taste has changed since becoming a parent. I think it's my fiction that I'm ingesting, like my like my literature that's changed I tend to kind of avoid a lot of extreme horror these days, like reading it and even writing it, I just find that a lot of it tends to gravitate toward kind of low hanging fruit of of what's, what's the thing that we could, that we Could just tear apart like a baby. You know, there just seems to be a lot of that happening these days, and that's fine. I mean, it's, I know a lot of authors that have written that type of stuff, and that's, that's perfectly fine. It's, it's, I'm not shitting on it. I'm just saying I've found these days that that kind of thing is not for me necessarily. I think reading a book, like, if I were to have read, I'm looking at it right now my shelf. I don't know if either of you have read the book shackled by Ray Garton. I think it came out in the early 90s. It's a book about child children being abducted into sex slavery, and like, the cop that's like, like, actively searching for this. I think maybe if I were to read something like that now, I wouldn't, maybe wouldn't be able to get through it as well. I just, I find that anything that a lot of stuff that involves kids, negative things happening to kids, kind of bothers me. I guess it all just kind of depends on how it's done. If it's just for, like, wholesale slaughter, then I don't want anything to do with it. But if it's done, depending on how it's done, it just is how I can take it, I guess. But it's weird. Like movies doesn't necessarily bother me as much, which. Strange because of being such a visual medium. But yeah, my, my, my tastes have changed quite a bit, as far as, like, I guess you've already brought it up so we can talk about it, like, with my, my own writing. I've found, since being a parent, I've I've found maybe more. I've been, I've been trying to find and write and discover more humanity in my work, as far as relationships and and people, people's interactions and and attitudes about things I think have changed in my writing, which I which I really enjoy now, I think discovering more, or trying to to find myself in these, in these characters, and to try to write more characterization and relationships and personality, I think has been, has been really interesting. So maybe something that I wasn't as focused on, even, like five or six years ago, where I am now, especially like in threesome, has been a real joy to kind of discover, and it's been, it's opened up a new part of my of my creativity and my focus that I didn't know was there before, and it's been kind of hard to find the audience for it, unfortunately, because a lot of my earlier stuff is a little bit more extreme, a little bit more splatter punk, I guess. I guess maybe my my older readers, aren't picking up on it as much as I as much as I would hope, and I'm hoping that they'll maybe give it a more chance going forward, and maybe I can hopefully, you know, find newer readers for the new stuff. But yeah, that's been, that's that's been my, my focus, my focus lately has been more character driven pieces, where the horror isn't necessarily monsters or or or blood and guts, but more situational and more gut punch. In a real sense, I'm fine with putting, you know, the supernatural in there, but I want people to feel for these characters, and I want, I want people to relate to it and and to feel it kind of more viscerally than than to be kind of grossed out. And I mean, I've really, really been enjoying what I've been doing lately a lot the last couple years.

Bob Pastorella 27:31
Yeah, I would say that threesome is basically, to me, it was hard. It's this new or new, er, little sub genre that that I love is the fuck around and find out, yeah, sub genre, because you, no matter, no matter what your intentions are, no matter how pressured you might be to go into a certain situation, if You, if you take that step, there are repercussions that will reverberate for the rest of your life, and some of them, they might be very, very small, little tremors that you can internalize and keep personal. And then there's reverberations that become tidal waves that affect other people. And to me, when something like that happens, I see that can be a very horrific situation, you know, and that's what, that's what I, I felt when I, when I read threesome, is because, and I'm not trying to spoil anything, but what happens affects everyone, and it has a ripple effect. And there was some, some, some definite emotional horror as far as trauma in that story. And if you're listening to this, and you're you're like, Oh, I like Wesley's how like is supernatur stuff, you need to get on, you need to get involved in a threesome. Really.

Wesley Southard 29:06
I appreciate that. Yeah, the story really came out of it. Came out of a tick tock that I saw a couple years or, like, maybe a year and a half ago or so. It was one of those, I don't know if it was recorded on a podcast, and then they just kind of record it and put it as a tick tock. But it's, I see come across these all the time where they these people will read these stories called like, am I the asshole? And then they'll read the story about somebody basically explaining, like a situation, and then at the end, they'll be like, okay, am I the asshole in this situation? And the whole thing was, my, my my fiance and I decided that we were going to have a threesome before we got married with one of her friends, and over circumstances, the other woman becomes pregnant. And am I the asshole for wanting to help raise this child within my wife does earn. And now my wife does not want me to raise this child, so and I heard it, and I thought, wow, that's really interesting. That's really sad, because I couldn't imagine, like, not being there for a kid. You know, it's just that's, that's, that's, that's got to be the worst thing in the world. I mean that to me, in my brain as a new parent, I was like, that sounds horrible. Like, I couldn't imagine that. And then I just kept thinking more and more about it. And I was like, There's something there. I don't know what, but I that there's something really interesting there. And then maybe about a year later, I was like, You know what? I gotta stop thinking about this. I gotta really do this. Like, I have to write this. I don't know who's gonna like it or if it's going to come out, like, how I have it in my head, or if my normal readers will will care, I need to get this out of my brain, because this is this. This, to me, is like, the right story for my, my, my, my personality right now, in my, in my head space. And I'm glad I did. And I thought at first I was like, Oh, this is only going to be like a 15,000 word novelette or something like that, and it came out like 42,000 words. But I I love threesome. Threesome to me, I think the my two favorite things that I think I've ever written have been the last two things that I've written, and that's been threesome and a story that I wrote for a two novella collection that author Wiley young and I put out called disaster pieces, which was like disaster horror novellas. And my story in there called, everybody wants to rule the world. And that's another one that's a non supernatural kind of thriller story. And yeah, these two have been real gut punch ripple effect stories that that I've just really, really enjoyed writing and really enjoyed kind of searching my psyche for different types of situations and tips and feelings and yeah, it's, it's been really pleasurable to to kind of get these out of my brain and to put something else like that out in the world. It's been really, it's been really interesting.

Michael David Wilson 32:06
Yeah, well, for me, I mean, Threesome is the strongest of the three stories that you've got in the collection, which is not to disparage the other two, but to point to the quality, really, of threesome. And I mean, I wondered as I was reading it, because it was so damn good. I mean, did did you ever consider releasing it as a standalone and I mean, what went through your head with that? And also, why did you choose to close rather than open with it.

Wesley Southard 32:42
Um, I, there's part of me that wishes I would have released it solo. I've been told by a few people much higher than me, like much, much higher than me, on the ladder I should have. I think my thought was I didn't know how this would have done by itself, and my novella, one for the road, had just gone out of print through deadite. And you know, closing costs is like my oldest novella. So I thought, Okay, well, why don't I just put these together in a book and just have these all together and package it differently and get a really good cover from Trevor Henderson, and just kind of put it out that way. Yeah, I, like I said, part of me kind of wishes I would have put it out separately, but at the same time, I don't know how it would have done. I never wanted to call it threesome, because I feel like that was kind of a listening, like, a certain tone that I wasn't going for in the story. I never wanted the story to come off as, like, what you think of the moment you hear the title threesome. Like, I feel like people are going to see the title and be like, Oh, well, yeah, I know exactly this is going to be. That wasn't the point of the story. And that's why, in the story, when it got to that point, I really did not want it to come off pornographic or, like, male gaze when it came to the sex in the story, that's where it kind of ended, the way it ended, not to, like, give anything away, but, yeah, I don't, I don't know. Man, I, I've, I've been considering putting it out separately, just for the hell of it, but at the same time, it's just kind of part of this collection now. So I don't know. Maybe eventually, maybe eventually, I should start listening to the people above me and do that, do the right thing.

Michael David Wilson 34:39
Yeah, yeah. I wonder if you know, there could almost be a compromise where you could release it as a standalone, but like a collector's edition, something along the lines of a thunderstorm press. I'm not specifically soliciting thunderstorm now, but I've worked. With those. I mean,

Wesley Southard 35:01
oh yeah, I've worked with thunderstorm many, many times. I got a bunch of my books of theirs right behind me on my shelf. I love Paul. Paul's the best. Yeah, I've been meaning to work with him again. I just haven't the last couple years. I don't, I don't know why, no reason why. But yeah, yeah, I don't know. I The more I'm thinking about the more I'm starting to think I should just release, uh, threesome separately and kind of see what happens. I don't, I don't know. I've been wondering about that, but I think I'm starting to kind of lean toward it. Now we'll see.

Michael David Wilson 35:34
Yeah, how did you first get involved with thunderstorm?

Wesley Southard 35:39
Um, so other than being a huge fan of their stuff, how did I become involved? I think I just emailed Paul and was like, Hey, here's who I am. Here's some stuff I have out you have any interest. And he said, Yeah, sure, and send him a couple things, and that's just kind of how it happened. And that's, that's kind of the, one of the things I've noticed when I have, like, younger authors, or like newer authors. When I say younger, I mean, like newer authors, I'm not, I'm not that old, but I get asked a lot like, like, how did you get, you know, how did you end up working with that foreign publisher. How did you end up working with X, Y, Z publisher? And I'm just like, 90% of this business is just asking. You just have to just ask, and all you can get is a yes or no answer. That's it. It's literally that simple. Like, I just asked for it. Like, like, the the forum publishers that I worked with found the email on their website, sent them an email and said, Hey, here's who I am. Here's my credits. Do you have the interest in checking in on stuff? Yes, awesome. No, thanks. Anyway, you know that's, it's, it's, I don't know, a lot of people have a hard time asking for things. And I just learned after being in this business for almost 20 years, and I'm just and I'm just like, You know what? Just ask. What's it gonna hurt if you get a no answer, yeah, it sucks. But if you get a yes, then, hey, no effort on my part. You know,

Michael David Wilson 37:13
this is honestly how a lot of things have happened for me as well, just reaching out to people and asking them, and yeah, this is probably why, at the moment, I don't have an agent. Because, you know, for me to have an agent, I need them to be able to do something for me that I can't do for myself. And you know, so far, I haven't found the right match. Obviously there, there will be some out there, but I think some people, they put the agent on a pedestal, and they think, Well, I'd need an agent to contact that publisher. No, you probably don't. I mean, you you can email them and you can see what happens. Right as you say, if they say no, you are in no worse position than you were before you sent that email. And if they say yes, so let's take a look. Well, you're further along. Absolutely.

Wesley Southard 38:13
All you can do is ask, that's, that's one of my that's one of the very few pieces of advice I can give to any, any newer author, all you can do is ask and a lot, and even for like, if you, if you're looking for advice from other authors, like, you know, most people aren't gonna, you know, be shitty to you. Some will. Some people have attitudes. You know, I've met plenty of them, but most people are, you know, are happy to answer a question about a publisher or to or about anything in the business. It's not, you know, if they can't at least give you an answer for something, and they're kind of an asshole. But you know, it's unless you're asking, like, you know, if you're like, emailing Ramsey Campbell or something and bugging him, but most indie authors are going to answer your questions about things. I mean, a lot of us are probably happy to do it. Ramsey

Michael David Wilson 39:03
Campbell is, like, really generous with his time, so actually, he probably would be up for it if you were to ask my question. I mean, I've never met him. I'm not encouraging people to constantly email Ramsey Campbell. He's like, Oh, I got another writing question I'll ask Ramsey, the new equivalent to ask Jesus, if you remember that bizarre website, but, oh,

Wesley Southard 39:29
absolutely,

Michael David Wilson 39:31
yeah, yeah. But goodness, I I definitely want to talk more about Threesome, but I also want to talk about your origin story in terms of becoming a writer. So I want you to take us all the way back to 2007 when you met Brian Keene, all

Wesley Southard 39:54
right. Uh, yeah. So I had been reading Brian, uh. Uh, God, since high school, my my guitar instructor in high school actually got me into him. We were both big zombie movie fans, and I remember we used to like, you know, when, after our lessons, we used to talk about zombie movies and stuff. And sometimes I we would trade movies, like, he'd let me borrow some of his old VHS, and that's how I got to see some of the old Italian movies and old Spanish zombie movies and stuff that I, you know, love to death today. But I remember very specifically one time he was like, man, if you like watching this stuff, you'd really like reading it too. You gotta check out this really cool book that literally just came out called the rising. I was like, okay, you know, whatever. I'll give it a chance. And I remember reading the rising and not being able to put it down and just losing my shit the entire time I was reading it. I mean, it blew me away, and I will never forget sitting in my basement at my parents house. And it had to have been four or five o'clock in the morning, and I was trying to fit just rapidly finish this book, and and I finally finished it, and I felt like I couldn't breathe at the time, and I was just losing my I was just losing my mind. And this was this. The book had been out for almost a year by then, and I was like, Oh my God, you know, if we all read the rising by this point, I'm like, Oh my God, that ending. Like, there has to be a sequel to this, even though, like, you know, if you know Brian's story, like, he never planned to write a sequel, but, like, kind of end up having to write a sequel to it. So I remember rushing to the computer and, like, finding his website, and discovered, like, he had just announced that, like, city of the dead was going to be out in like, a couple of months. And I was like, Oh, thank God. So yeah, I was reading a ton of Brian Keene. And then after becoming a huge fan of his, that kind of ended up becoming like, well, like, who are the people that you know he's friends with? So then I started reading JF Gonzales and Mary San Giovanni and Edward Lee. And I gotta look at my shelves. And you know that became Graham Masterton and Simon Clark and Rath James White and Ray Garton and Tim Levin and and Ronald mouthy and Douglas Clegg and, you know, and Ronald Kelly, and, you know, like a lot of the leisure authors, so that was kind of my introduction to horror, like at least mass market Horror was, was the leisure crowd, you know, that's and, and I ended up falling in love with that stuff. And I was reading it in college, you know, while the guys were partying downstairs and drinking and and hooking up with girls, I was the dork upstairs reading, you know, EARTHWORM GODS by Brian. So, yeah. So yeah. So I was in. By the time I got back from college, I remember seeing Brian was gonna be in doing a show in Indianapolis called mo con, which is actually a yearly or semi yearly show run by author Maurice Broadus. So I was like, Okay, well, yeah, I want to meet this guy. Obviously, I got a ton of his books. I got a bunch of his small press books. And Brian was one of my introduction to, you know, delirium and necessary evil and and and bloodletting books and stuff like, you know, the small press of the early to mid 2000s that I was completely obsessed with for years. And I took a bunch of those books, and I went up to Indianapolis with my best friend to meet him. And I remember sitting in the back of the room, watching him from across the room, and I was just like, I'm too nervous to go meet him. Like, this is just awkward and weird. I don't know how to do this. Like, I didn't know. You know, what do I do with my hands? You know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing here. And I remember him very specifically over there talking to somebody. And he looked across the room and saw me with all my books sitting there, and I he made a beeline across the room, and he just sat at the table with me and just started talking to me. And we got to talking about music and books and stuff, and it was so cool. And he signed all my books while we were talking, and we took some pictures together. I remember just thinking after, after he walked away and was talking to other people, I was like, you know, I'm not really doing music anymore. Maybe I could try writing. I don't know. I've never really written before, but maybe this is something I could try. I don't know. I love reading it, you know, why not? Why not throw your dime in the bucket and give this a shot? You know? Who knows if you fail, you fail, whatever. So over the next couple months, I start thinking about an idea for. Look. And I remember going to my best friend's house when they came to the show with me, and we started sitting. We sat in his backyard, on his porch, and was talking about it. And then I started pitching this idea, and he kind of helped me develop a couple things with it. And then I went home and started writing my first novel to betray. And then it just kind of just never stopped after that, it just kind of kept going and going and and, yeah, that's, I mean, it's not the sexiest story, but it's that's, that's kind of my, that's my origin story when it comes to how I started writing, and I just kind of, I kind of did it the, the ass backwards way. I know you're kind of lot of people were kind of supposed to start writing short stories before they started writing their first novel, but I started writing my first novel and then started writing short stories. So I had to kind of learn the the backwards way of doing things. But yeah, that's, that's, it's, again, it's, it's not the sexiest, but it's me.

Michael David Wilson 45:59
And I mean, given that you had read so much before and you'd watched all these horror movies, even if you hadn't, you know, written stories, per se, the scaffolding and the structure and the knowledge, Oh, absolutely, how to tell a story must have been there. Oh,

Wesley Southard 46:18
absolutely, like I said, I'm definitely a product of the leisure years of of the horror of the early 2000 early to mid 2000s and I'm really thankful for that, because there was so much talent in that group. I mean, there's so much talent and there's so much there were so many to look up to. I mean, like I said, You got Brian and Jesus and leban and Gonzalez or and Masterton. And it's weird. I found, I find, I've always found that I've, like, weirdly gravitated toward the British horror authors like, like Graham Masterton is probably my favorite author ever. Like, I am obsessed with masterton's work. And same thing with like Simon Clark. I'm a massive Simon Clark fan. And, you know, I probably wouldn't have started writing if it wasn't for somebody like Tim Levin. You know, I'm a huge Tim Levin fan. Yeah, I'm, I'm really grateful for kind of when, when I decided to start writing. I love, I love who I'm inspired by. I'm super thankful that, that those, that those those writers were the ones that inspired me, because they definitely left a def, left an impact on me that has, that has continued to this day. And it's weird. And this isn't I know this sounds like some kind of weird flex, but it's been really cool to be friends with a lot of them now that's been something really interesting that I never expected, you know, almost 20 years ago, that I like talk to these people on a regular basis, and I'm friends with them and stuff now. And it's, it's really, it's really cool, you know, it's really, it's, it's cool to be able to call a lot of these people friends and peers now and that's something I don't take for granted.

Michael David Wilson 48:02
Yeah, I completely get that. And some of the people that we chat with on This Is Horror. I think I was literally reading your books when I was a kid, so I certainly understand that surrealness. But I mean, one of the authors you mentioned is JF Gonzalez, and I understand that you have been tasked with the ability to write the authorized sequel to primitive. Is there anything you can tell us about that.

Wesley Southard 48:41
Oh, man, where are you getting this info?

Michael David Wilson 48:45
This is what a lot of people ask me. They're like, how have you done it?

Wesley Southard 48:51
Brian asked me to write a sequel to primitive. I have kind of dropped the ball on that a bit. I have a few chapters written. You know, things have happened. I had a kid since then, I've kind of gone in and out of other projects. It's still, it's still up in the air. It's still, it will get done eventually. It's just one of those things I just haven't I just haven't gotten to unfortunately, I feel terrible about that, because I know Brian really wanted some of these other projects out along with this one, but I don't take it I don't take it lightly. For sure, I have, I have 90% of the story written in my head. It's just a matter of sitting down and doing it, but there, but unfortunately for Brian, there's other projects in my head that are screaming a bit louder for me to give them attention, but I can, but I can say that that primitive or that is a sequel to primitive. Will it will be out eventually? I. I it's not something I'm just like, gonna quietly try to ignore and forget about. It's, it's, it's definitely gonna get done eventually. It's just right now. It's just not my not at the it's not on the front burner. It's on the back burner. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 50:12
I completely understand that mindset, and I've always got far more projects on the go then, not only then I have time, but then I have mental capacity for I definitely work better putting everything into one project at a time, so it's more systematic. But yeah, there's a book that I'm working on at the moment, but then there's about another four or five that it's like we've got the gems of an idea, or we've got a we've got a lot of words that have been written for something that hasn't got a first draft yet. But, yeah, yeah. But you know, you return to to the good ones, hopefully. And you know, I found it at the moment, I am co writing a book with my friend John crinnen, and we wrote like 60,000 words of it about three or four years ago. We've recently returned to it, and we're kind of redoing the entire thing, and we've systematically planned it out, but there have been things that have happened in my life and in his life that are just making the book Rich here. And so the book we're writing today is so much better than if we'd have written it in, say, 2020, so yeah, sometimes these things happen for a reason.

Wesley Southard 51:40
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And I know there was a lot of a lot of the primitive sequel that that I know I was writing before I became a father, but now that I am a father, I know that there was a certain storyline in this, in this outline, or the story that that had to do with a character becoming or about to become a parent, that I think I know that I can write better now as a parent than than before being one. So, yeah, it's amazing how you can kind of put something back on a back burner for a while and then come back to it and be like, oh, like, click. Like, that makes sense now. Like, now I feel more comfortable being able to write something like that. It just, it's amazing how the human brain works. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 52:22
yeah, absolutely. And I've even found, you know, sometimes when I'm writing something, or I'm looking back at what I wrote in the early chapters, how I've accidentally foreshadowed things that I didn't even realize I had, it's like, oh, my brain was a step ahead of me. You know when you're saying, it's amazing how the brain works. See, oh yeah, it is interesting. When sometimes I've thought there's a story problem and I didn't know the answer, but the answer is actually in the earlier chapters, I just need to read it differently

Wesley Southard 52:58
100% and that's, that's the, that's the fun thing about doing this for so long, is you find that, yeah, it's like you said, you just sometimes you don't realize you're putting in those little nuggets earlier in the book, and then, and then you go back and you're like, oh, that actually, yeah, that actually, that's, that's where it's supposed to go, like, that's that it was always meant to be like, that. That's where my brain just kind of stuck that in there because you knew that that was going to help the story progress later. And that's, that's been the fun thing of being an author this long, or being a writer this long, I guess, is, is those, those muscles that that keep building and keep and keep working on them, you know, keep trying to build on each other, and and, and be, you know, the creativity, just just compounding and showing, just flexing, flexing those muscles. And I'm ranting now. I don't even know what I'm trying to say. You know what I'm saying? I kind of lost my train of thought there for a second. Sorry about that?

Michael David Wilson 54:01
Yeah, yeah. And of course, you you've said a number of times that becoming a parent has impacted and changed so many things, as it certainly did for me, too. And I'm wondering what does your writing routine look like, and how has parenthood impacted that? Well

Wesley Southard 54:24
before becoming a parent, I was doing two to three books a year, and now since becoming a parent, I've been fortunate to get one out a year. I just I try to write when I can, I some will sometimes go a couple months without even getting my computer out. It just it is what it is. I've got a day job where I'm working 10 hours a day, and by the time I get home at night, I'm making dinner, I'm playing with my kid, you know, I want to watch a movie or something just to decompress. And then by the time that happens, it's time to go to bed. Had, you know, it's sometimes it's hard. You know, my day job takes a lot of time away from home. And I also, you know, I want to play with my kid. I want to spend time with my wife. I want to still have the normal human existence without being stressed out about my writing, you know. And and, you know, my writing does stress me out. I get stressed out a lot about it, and it makes me sad, because I don't want to be stressed out about it. I don't want to constantly worry about sales or or is this, is this part of the story working, you know, or are people going to care about this book? Or does that character, what I did with that character, does that make sense to the rest of the story? I if a lot of that stuff kind of unnecessarily stresses me out, and so there'll be times where I just don't want to write because of it, and that's kind of a bad thing to maybe admit out loud on a podcast, but it's the truth. I mean, that's that's my truth, but I try to write when I can, and but the stuff that I'm putting out now, I want to mean more to me, and I want it to mean something instead of just getting content out, I don't want to worry about the volume that I'm putting out as much as I want to worry about the quality of what I'm putting out. And right now, I'm taking more of a quality approach than a quantity approach. And, yeah, maybe I'm not getting out as much as I'd like to, but what I am putting out I'm exceedingly happy with.

Michael David Wilson 56:34
Yeah, I find, or I found that, you know, early on writing, I put a lot of pressure on myself in the kind of quantity realm. And I think this is certainly a normal kind of mode and a mindset. But then with each release, or with each podcast or with each little bit of recognition, you know, my confidence has certainly grown so I am writing a lot, but I don't feel a pressure that I need to to prove myself or to to keep the writer label. It's like I am a writer, even if I take a two or a three year break, that's not going to stop it is fundamentally part of my identity, right? Is that something that is the same for you, and does that, in a sense, I suppose, alleviate yourself of some pressure and allow you to be like, Well, I'm gonna do these other things, because that's what I'm feeling right now. But I'm still a writer. Yeah,

Wesley Southard 57:39
absolutely. I think that's kind of the problem with the internet culture and and being an indie author, in particular, I'm not tied to a contract with a New York Big Five where I have to produce a novel, you know, once a year, every year for six years. I think the problem with a lot of indie authors, and I gotta, I gotta figure out how to word this correctly without making somebody making others mad. I think we as indie authors have this issue with feeling like we have to constantly put out something all the time as much as possible to stay relevant, because now more than ever, there are so many authors out there. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. That's a great thing. There are, there's, there's new avenues for people to put out stuff. There's self publishing. You know, people can put out as much as they want, as often as they want, and that's great, but that also creates a glut in the system of so much stuff. And the problem is, we all know the world we live in right now, money is tight, and you unfortunately are having, as an indie author, you're having to fight. Maybe fights, not the right word, but you have to fight for the attention of every reader. Every reader is not going to have money to buy every book from every author. It's just not possible. Some people can. Some people are blessed with a lot of money that can do that. Most aren't. So when you have 1000 indie authors putting out, you know, a book every other week. It's the market's getting flooded, and you're getting lost. You're getting lost in that. You're getting lost in the shuffle. And it's, it's a sad fact, but it is what it is, and having to fight for that attention can really kind of affect your mental state. And it has, for me, a lot of the times I felt like, since I've become a parent, and, you know, since some a lot of it's my fault, have been pulling back from from writing a lot, and going from three books a year to, you know, one a year. I feel like a lot of the times you know that. That maybe I'm getting forgotten, and I get depressed about that, because I felt like, before I had a child, I was on this really cool, like, upward trajectory, you know, I was winning a couple of splatter punk awards, and I felt like I was getting my name out there, and, you know, was getting the reviews that I was wanting, and and then when I stopped putting out that volume, you know, sales went down and wasn't getting the attention that maybe I was getting before. And it affects, it affects you mentally. I know a lot of authors. I'm not gonna sit here and name names, but I have a lot of author friends in the indie world who are going through the same thing, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to fight for the attention of readers. You know, there's only so many readers, and those readers only have so much money to spend on books. And it can really affect your mental state if you let it. And when you start looking at, well, you know, why am I not selling like that person? You know that that awful that, you know that starts really messing with your head, too, and you have to stop paying attention to what others are doing and realize you're on your own trajectory. You know? I try to tell people all the time to put the horse blinders on and focus on yourself, focus straight ahead on what you're doing. And it's hard. It's hard being an indie author is hard. I mean, I mean it's, it sounds silly to say that, but it's, it's hard mentally to stay focused and not pay attention to what others are doing. But I don't know it's, I think again, going back to to the the amount of stuff you're putting out, I think, I think more authors need to focus on putting out less, but putting out like, I don't know, like, like, better stuff. I know. I know maybe better stuff's not the right word. But like, putting out less, but focusing more on that, that the certain projects, I guess, instead of just putting out as much as possible, I think there's just too much coming out right now, and it's, I don't know. I think it's just a lot of it's just getting lost. I don't know. How do you guys feel about that?

Bob Pastorella 1:02:16
Oh, I agree 100% this happens. I mean, we hear this all the time, especially, you know, looking at genre and horror, that this is cyclic. It's, it's, and the the thing that usually signifies the beginning of the end is over saturation of the market, because everybody wants a piece of the pie, and everyone should have an equal shot at getting a piece of that pie. I mean, really, truly, because you never know when the next best, great thing is going to be right, but you're right. We can't read all the books. We can't we can't review all the books. We can't read all the books. My TBR pile is leaning tower of Pisa right now. So it's in multiple ones. I've got a little Metropolis started in my up near over here, on the side of the room, near my nightstand. And so it's this over saturation, the people who are going to rise are the ones that are focusing on quality, and that's that's in their their infusing their fiction with a passion and a fire. And they're a harp on this, I'm going to harp on it for a long time, and they're writing fearlessly, and I seen something on social media today from from Joe Koch, that that something that, that he made a comment on a while back and said, you know, fuck the readers. And I'm like, Man, that's that's some strong stuff. It was in context to ambiguity, right? And, like, you know, basically someone saying, Well, why can't they just make a story that's not ambiguous, you know? But, uh, you know, that's, that's a, that's a fearlessness there. And I love that kind of, yeah,

Wesley Southard 1:04:18
yeah. My dad always told me about this quote that he read from Eddie Murphy one time that he says he has to make himself laugh before he cares about if anybody else laughs, if he if he can laugh at his own joke, then then he's happy. And I always thought, Okay, well, that that definitely can apply to anybody's creativity, if, as long as it makes you happy, then, then, then, that's the most important thing. And yes, I want to, you know, I want to gain a readership, and I want, I want all the readers, but, but at the same time, like I have to be the happiest with my my work that I'm putting out into the world, I want my work to matter. And, yeah, I.

Bob Pastorella 1:05:01
Yeah, and that's, you know, it's when people say, Fuck the readers. They you have to like you're saying, you have to make yourself happy. We, we need readers. We wouldn't put it out there if we didn't want somebody to read the story, if we didn't want to share the story. So obviously, we need readers. But in the creative process, it's, it's about satisfying my questions, my thoughts that are going through my skull that you know that I might not even be able to get to an answer to, but I want to, I have a desire to put it on the page, to tell that story, right? And it's, you know, the only way you're going to succeed is, is by putting the best of you on the page and putting out quality work, the the you know, the the mindset of I've got to continue to produce something to be relevant, if every single piece of work that you do is relevant, and it took you 30 years to do five pieces, then you're still relevant. I mean, it just, you know, it doesn't matter. And,

Wesley Southard 1:06:21
you know, success happens at different rates for everybody. I mean, I, you know, Brian Keene always tells me, you know, look at Paul Tremblay. Paul Tremblay was providing, you know, for 20 years before he hit with with, you know, writing, you know, steadily for for years and years and years before, head full of ghosts. Hit same thing with Josh maleman. Josh Malerman was writing a bunch of stuff before a Bird Box hit, you know, you just, you never know when it happens. It just, it happens, when it happens. And that's it. Some people hit really early, like Keene did. Keene got very, very fortunate early on, and has, you know, and it worked for him in and some people take 20 years and, you know, that sucks, but it, when it hits for them, it's, it's awesome, you know, shit, he's got a M Night, Shyamalan movie now, you know, triple A. So he's, you know, he's doing, I think he's doing pretty good for himself.

Bob Pastorella 1:07:17
Mm, hmm. That's like, when people talk about this new writer named Stephen Graham Jones. And I'm like, You need to read this book called all the beautiful sinners that came out like, 20 fucking years ago, right? Who wrote that this new guy called Stephen Graham Jones? They're like, Huh?

Wesley Southard 1:07:36
Yeah, he's got quite the back list before, before the last couple of books that really hit hit, but yeah, he's got a hell of a back list.

Bob Pastorella 1:07:42
Oh yeah, demon theory for the win, yes. Oh

Michael David Wilson 1:07:48
yeah. Before he hit in inverted commas, because, you know, for me, he's he's always hit, but before he made a kind of wider impact, he was putting out like two or three or sometimes four books a year. So his back catalog is absolutely extensive. Thank you for listening to This Is Horror Podcast. If you enjoy the show and want to support us, then please consider becoming a patron a patreon.com, forward slash. This Is Horror. You'll get early bird access to each and every episode, and you can submit questions to the interviewee. You'll also automatically become a member of the This Is Horror discord, and every year there are bonus episodes for patrons only, such as story unboxed, the horror podcast on the craft of writing, in which Bob and I and sometimes a special guest will dissect a short story or film and let you know writing lessons and takeaways to improve your own writing. Another great way to support us is to leave us a review on the Apple podcast app or website. And if you want to watch the video version of the This Is Horror Podcast, join us on YouTube. Youtube.com, forward slash at This Is Horror Podcast. You can subscribe there and get notified every time there is a new video. And however you support us, I thank you in advance. Okay, before I wrap up a quick advert break, it

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in 1867 the young Samantha gray marries the infamous Captain Jakes, unleashing a series of brutal horror in this epic splatter Western from Death's Head press Nahan Sam by J D grays, is a rip roaring tall tale of revenge. Drags a coffin full of gold across the hellscape of reconstruction Texas and explodes at the top of a mountain. You better read this one with laughs on

Michael David Wilson 1:10:42
before I go, I wanted to let you know that my forthcoming book, daddy's boy, is available to pre order on both the This Is Horror website in paperback and on Amazon in ebook. And there will also be an audio book coming soon, narrated by the wonderfully talented Josh Curran, and if you want a little bit of an appetizer for daddy's boy, Jason, pardon, the author of John Dies at the End. Says it is a delirious ride through mundane absurdity and surreal brutality. Daddy's boy perfectly captures the feeling of reconnecting with a loved one only to find out there are filthy, out of control chaos. Gremlin it is out on May 6, but if you pre order, dad is boy in paperback, directly from This Is Horror, you'll get the e book, one month ahead of the crowd. And anyone who pre orders, whether in paperback or e book, will be part of a giveaway to win a rare signed arc of the book, all you need to do is email proof of pre order purchase to Michael at this is horror.co.uk. And if you want to talk to me on your podcast about Dad is boy, or, in fact, about anything horror or writing or dark comedy related, give me an email. Michael at this is horror.co.uk, so I am open for going on the podcast circuit. Well, okay, that is all for today, so until next time for part two with Wesley suffered, take care of yourselves. Be good to one another. Read horror, keep on writing and have a Great, great day.

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