TIH 611: Lena Valencia on Mystery Lights, David Lynch Influence, and Writing Routine

Michael David Wilson 0:07
Welcome to This Is Horror, a podcast for readers, writers and creators. I'm Michael David Wilson, and every episode, alongside my co host, Bob Pastorella, we chat with the world's best writers about writing, life lessons, creativity and much more. Today I am chatting to Elena Valencia, the author of the short story collection mystery liars. Now Lain is fiction has appeared in a number of publications, including bomb electric literature, ninth letter epiphany and the anthology tiny nightmares. She is the recipient of a 2000 and a 19 Elizabeth George Foundation grant, and holds an MFA in fiction from the new school. She lives in Brooklyn, New York, where she is the managing editor and director of educational programming at one story and the co hosted reading series ditmus lit. And in today's conversation, I talk to Lena about her early life lessons her start as a writer, and we dig deep into the aforementioned short story collection, mystery lights, which is also one of the nominees for a This Is Horror award. So if you haven't voted in the This Is Horror awards, I do suggest that you head over to this is horror.co.uk forward slash awards, and have a little look at the categories, and then send in your votes to awards at this is horror.co.uk Now before I get into the conversation with Lena, a quick advert break,

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Bob Pastorella 3:08
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Michael David Wilson 3:37
With that said, Here it is. It is. Lena Valencia on, This Is Horror. Lena, welcome to This Is Horror.

Lena Valencia 3:49
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, I'm

Michael David Wilson 3:54
excited to have you here. And I mean, when both me and Bob read mystery lights. We were absolutely wowed. I think it is one of the standout short story collections from last year, not just within horror, but across all literature. So I definitely want to talk a lot about that. But before we get to the book itself, I want to know what were some early life lessons that you learned growing up in LA,

Lena Valencia 4:30
early life lessons growing up in LA? Oh, that's a good question.

I think growing up in Los Angeles,

I always kind of had a, you know, from from when I was fairly young, like an awareness that I was in in Los Angeles. And a lot of that was because LA is in a lot of films. So it was, I. It was very strange to see like my home city, and in the movies I was watching and and I remember when I was about I think I was like in middle school, I did a short semester, even a semester was like six weeks at a at a boarding school in Toronto, and everyone was very impressed that I was from Los Angeles. And that was, like, very strange to me, because I was very excited to be in a different city as a, like, young teenager. So but, but then I kind of learned about, like, all the cliches about LA, and they were asking me if I'd seen celebrities and, and that just all kind of came as as a shock to me, because I was like, Well, I just thought I was from like, the every town, because that's what I see in these movies. But, um, but I think kind of bringing it back to to my own writing and, and, you know, I'm sure anyone could say this about about where they're from, but it just, it gave me, like a real awareness of place and, and I was always kind of curious about, you know, about the city, kind of growing up, I love to try to find, like, secret spots in the, in the, you know, the hillsides, or, you know, have my little, you know, my bus routes. I was really into, like taking, taking the bus places and kind of getting, getting out of the house. But, yeah, I would say that it really gave me an awareness of kind of place and of, you know, how and how cities work and how things differ by neighborhood. Yeah, I really love Los Angeles, and have a lot of it. You know, a lot of the book is set in the desert, but a lot of there's a lot of

Michael David Wilson 7:00
LA in the book. And do you think because you were surrounded by artists, both within LA and I understand your parents too, were artists, your dad being a documentary filmmaker, and your mother also a creative Did you know, or did you feel drawn from an early age that you wanted to be a writer and you wanted to be a creative too? Or was that something that came later,

Lena Valencia 7:32
that came pretty early on? Yeah, and I am very, incredibly grateful to my parents for being very supportive of of my creativity from the time I was a kid and my grandmother as well. I remember poetry when I was, you know, when I was in elementary school, and she printed out and put it on the bulletin board in her like, community that she lived in. So it was very sweet, but, but, yeah, my parents were always very supportive. They always took it, like, very seriously, and so that was that was really, you know, conducive to my, to my growth as a writer, and also just seeing see different path that artists could take and, you know, understanding that there also needed to be, like, some sort of day job involved, you know, my, you know, for a long time, my mother was like the bread winner, you know, she was, she worked in graphic design, and, well, you know, well, My father worked on his, on his movies and like, I think that that's also a really important lesson for us to learn, is that you know the world isn't just gonna support you for your art, like you have to find a way to do it yourself. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 8:56
so kind of depressing but also liberating realization when you figure that one out. And I mean, you know, the amount of writers that I talk to on This Is Horror, and it's not a full time thing for a lot of people. It's something that they're doing between the cracks, even New York Times best sellers. I mean, when we were speaking to Paul Tremblay for a long time, he's been a high school math teacher as well as a novelist, and that's kind of what you have to do. But I think too, that each person's path is unique, so there is no set route to becoming a creative or a writer.

Lena Valencia 9:44
Yeah, exactly. And I think that's something that that is not necessarily reflected as much as it should be in kind of this, you know, what people think of as the writing life, a. Much as I love Stephen King's book on writing, I think it has some incredible advice, and every writer should read it. Just one part where he is like, you should write for eight hours a day, and you're just like, okay, Stephen King, yes, I absolutely should, but not gonna work for me. So I do think that that can kind of be a harsh reality when people realize that it's not, it's, it's not going to pay the bills. And, you know, in some ways it's, it's kind of nice to work outside of that, you know. But also, you know, artists should be supported for their work, but, yeah, it, it is definitely. It's always a struggle, you know, finding time in those in those cracks, and it's been kind of a consistent struggle for me, building a routine. Yeah, I'm amazed at any writer who can do it, and even more so when, like, writers have kids and a job and are somehow churning out books, and just like you were, you are a superstar,

Michael David Wilson 11:15
yeah, so I mean talking about routine, what at the moment does your writing routine or your writing approach look like? If it's a writing lack of routine,

Lena Valencia 11:29
yeah, I will say I am. I loved publishing a book. It was, you know, really a truly wonderful experience. It really kind of shook up my my writing routine, and made it very hard to get back to my to the project I'm working on now. But you know, when I am and I'm kind of slowly, kind of getting back there, but a lot of when I was writing mystery lights, I was lucky enough to, you know, be working at a writing space that was actually down the street from my office for my day job. So I usually go there the mornings, maybe a few times a week, and then I have I work four days a week, so I was able to also go in there on Fridays and kind of do longer stretches of writing and, yeah, usually, usually in the morning is when I get a lot of work done. And then the other thing that has been and that I really try to to be consistent about, is doing some sort of writing retreat once a year, whether it's a writing residency, which are, you know, they're competitive. It's hard to get into, and sometimes they can be expensive, but at the very least, you know, getting, you know, a rental somewhere, usually somewhere remote for a week, for two weeks, and just being able to kind of, well, somewhat unplug, but like, just be, kind of be by myself and and with my work, you know, if it's at an artist residency, somewhat in community with other artists, but also as well working, and that's when I get I am always surprised at how much work I get done, and that is when I do feel like I come close To the Stephen King ideal of being a writer who writes eight hours a day is when I'm kind of on those on those retreats.

Michael David Wilson 13:27
I mean, if you're on a retreat for two weeks, or, you know, you're kind of solo in isolation for two weeks, what volume of writing are we talking about? What might you get done in a typical retreat?

Lena Valencia 13:45
Um, I usually I try to set a word count for myself. Um, it kind of depends on what I'm working on. If I'm editing, that's a different story. But usually I'm working on more long form projects. So I usually set for myself, the last one I went on, I think it was between around 2000 words a day, something like maybe it was more. I think it might have been around 2000 and, yeah, and, and having that goal really kind of helped me stay on track. The other thing I do is, whenever I'm on these retreats, in the morning, I will be very I'm not super consistent about this at home, but I will keep a journal and, and that kind of gets, gets things rolling and, and the other thing I do, and this is a practice that I started, kind of during COVID lockdown. Is I have a like a collage practice. It's sort of a hobby, and so I'll do that kind of to wind down in the evenings, to keep myself from just streaming garbage television, which is fine, but. Not always conducive to staying in, like, the space that I'd like to be in when I'm when I'm working. So, yeah, that's kind of my my routine when I'm not living my day to day life on these lovely little escapes.

Michael David Wilson 15:16
Yeah, and in terms of the journaling, it brings to mind Julia Cameron's morning pages to really, kind of unlock that creativity and to just almost give you a clear palette for the process of writing that will follow. Yeah,

Lena Valencia 15:33
absolutely, you know, I haven't, I haven't actually read Julia Cameron. A lot of students that I work with have found her work really, really helpful. So I've heard about it through them. But, yeah, it, it really is, and it you just, you feel like you're, you feel like you've, you know, you've got something down, even if you're just kind of writing random reflections. And it can also be interesting to, you know, I don't often go back to to to those entries. But it can just be kind of interesting to go back and see what I was thinking about when I was working on this scene or something, or, you know, even if it's something from, you know, personal life. But, um, yeah, I find it to be kind of just a, just a nice way to to wake up.

Michael David Wilson 16:21
Yeah, I find anything we write down can be potential fodder for story ideas or story plots later. You know, down the line. Sometimes there are things that we write and it's like, absolutely that will not be going into a story, but it it's good to have it to, as you say, even read back and to get back into that mindset, it might unlock something.

Lena Valencia 16:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. The other thing I found useful for those, those kind of flashes of ideas, and I know a lot of other writers do this, but is, is the Notes app on my phone. I've, I've started, I've started using that a lot, actually, just it's a, it's a great way to kind of, you know, I mean, I'm on public transportation a lot because I'm in Brooklyn, so it's much easier than pulling out my notebook and writing on a shaky subway, just pulling out my phone, and I've tried to, I've tried, especially, you know, in this these past few months, where I'm really making an effort to get back into this project that I'm working on and kind of move out of publicity mode. I've really like any time I get any sort of idea, you really make an effort to write it down, because I can always just ignore it later. But usually I just feel better. I feel like, at least, if I you know, even if it's 100 words, at least I've gotten something down from the day and kind of kept in touch with me, with my work, and

Michael David Wilson 17:55
speaking of being in publicity mode when you're in that mode when you're in that mindset, is it possible for you also, during the day to be doing writing? Or do you have to kind of say, right, this day is dedicated to publicity. This one is writing. How does it work for you? Because I feel this is a dance. This is a balance that so many writers are trying to get right. Because, of course, you know, deep within us, within our soul, we just want to be writing, but it's also quite nice to sell books so you can write more books and get more deals. So how are you navigating that? Um,

Lena Valencia 18:37
yeah, I think you know, this is my first time doing this, my debut book. So this is, this was just kind of going off advice of other writers, and also you just kind of have to feel your way through it. I think I, you know, those, I think it was probably like July through, you know, book came out in August. So it was probably like July through October, November of like of 2024, I just kind of left it. Just told myself, like, don't, don't worry about getting any significant writing down on this other project, and there was other, it's funny, you know, when, as you probably know, when a book comes out, there's other writing that you have to do about the book. So, like, you know, I was pitching personal essays and doing, you know, doing interviews and those kinds of things, and writing little, you know, blog posts and, you know, opportunities I was very grateful for but I think, you know, as I was working on the book, I didn't expect to be like, having analyze these stories. You think I kind of, I went in kind of thinking like, well, I, you know, I wrote the stories. Now people can read them and decide what they think. But I. That's not really how it works, which, in some ways is, is, is really great and fun, but it was, it does. It did get in the way of kind of creating new work. But, you know, I was also able to connect with a lot of readers and with other writers at, you know, festivals. And as part of this. One thing that really helped with publicity process is being a part of this cohort through poets and writers magazine of 10 of us called Get the word out. And it was all it was like a publicity incubator for debut writers who are publishing with independent presses, and we're still in touch on WhatsApp. And that community has been really wonderful, because we were all kind of going into this situation, you know, this crazy world of like, publishing your first book together. And so that was really having that community was really useful, like as a sounding board for, you know, kind of like brass tacks, like industry questions, but also just emotional support, which it is an emotional thing, putting a book into the world. So that was very helpful.

Michael David Wilson 21:18
Oh, yeah, certainly. And I wonder, in terms of actually landing this with a publishing house, what did the querying process look like? Were you doing this with an agent? Was it solo querying? And how did you land with the two publishers that you ultimately did,

Lena Valencia 21:44
yeah, so my process was somewhat unconventional. I had, you know, written a collection and was querying agents and getting some really lovely responses from them, but a lot of the responses were like, you know, these stories are great. You know, come back to us when you have a novel manuscript, because, you know, short stories are kind of a hard sell. And so I got a lot of those. I was querying for about a year, and after I kind of hit the one year mark, I was like, Well, okay, I'm going to start sending this to contests, sending this manuscript to contests. And actually, I should say, in the process of this, I gotten some feedback from one agent on the manuscript, took those notes, revised some of the stories, sent them back and did that, that agent did not end up taking me on as a client, but I did have this, like they gave me very helpful notes, so I had, like, this kind of shiny revised manuscript. Was sending it off to contests, and then it was actually kind of magical. I was in in Utah on a hiking trip, sorry for my birthday, and I saw looking at my phone, which I probably should have been doing, and like the spectacular landscape I was in, but the tin house was having an open call for short story collections that were grounded in place. And I told my husband, I was like, I have to do this. Like, we're gonna have to put whatever activity we have on hold. I just, I have to get this in. Luckily, I brought my laptop so I I sent it in, and yeah, and then they were and they were interested, and, oh, and at that point, you know, I still didn't have an agent, but once, once tin house was interested, I was able to kind of secure an agent To help me with that, with with the deal and and we're, you know, still working together, and it's been a really wonderful experience with with tin house, and then that the agent that that I'm with, the agency that I'm with, was able to to connect me with dead Inc, who have also been really lovely. And I'm just, I'm so grateful to both of these small presses because they're they're just so cool and excited to be part of their roster. So, yeah, that's kind of how it worked. A lot of times people start off with with an agent and in querying and but I kind of went around it, got her, you know, did it a different way? It's important to remember that there's many ways to get a book out into the world. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 24:43
I think there are just so many paths these days that there's not really a right way of doing it. But I love the serendipitous timing that tin house had this cool it's like this is just perfect for you. And. Particularly with it being so much grounded in place, with it being grounded in the desert and the desert landscapes of America. I mean, there are a few stories that are in different locations, but there's this overall feel of that almost wilderness. And so, I mean, was this always a big thematic concern that a lot of these stories would take place in the desert, or did it kind of come together when you were looking at the stories that you had when, when did place fit into this? I

Lena Valencia 25:39
think place, it was kind of a, it was almost a prompt for me. I had actually written the title story first, and that was after a trip to to West Texas and through West Texas and and I thought, well, you know, what? What if I try doing a collection of stories that are, you know, that feature kind of women in in the in, you know, different Desert, desert landscapes. And that was a very like, kind of, very simple prompt, but it kind of helped the wheels in my head start to turn and and think about what the American Southwest kind of looked like in our imagination, what it was in reality, and what, you know, what it symbolized and, and that was that kind of guided me through, through the stories, you know, they're all very places there. They're all very character driven, I would say. And, but, but, yeah, that definitely was kind of an organizing principle as I was working on these stories, and helped give it, give it a focus for me, both as I was writing and also as I was kind of trying to sell it as well. And

Michael David Wilson 26:55
so did you know early on that mystery lights was going to be the titular piece to the collection.

Lena Valencia 27:03
I did not I think I was applying for a grant, and I think I called it desert women. Since I'd only written like I'd only when I was applying, had maybe that story and couple of other ones that may not have even been set in the desert, I was just like imagining the other ones I would be writing. So, yeah, so mystery, so mystery lights did not, I don't think I decided that that would be the title story, until I started kind of pulling the pulling the stories together and kind of the most compelling title.

Michael David Wilson 27:42
And in terms of the inspiration, you said you were on a road trip in Texas, was there anything that kind of sparked off the story? I mean, obviously there are the real life mystery lights. But what was it that kind of drew you to this place and to creating the story?

Lena Valencia 28:07
It was really the strangeness of Marfa. It was a lot of way, in a lot of ways, it felt like, you know, and I will preface this by saying I only spent a couple of days there, so I, you know, I don't want to, like, I'm not passing any judgment on it. It was a really wonderful experience, but it just, it was just such an unusual little town because a lot of it seemed like it was built. It was kind of catering to this, sort of outsiders like me. Idea of what, like a little desert town should, should look like. And then it also, so it had, you know, there's, like, a motel that's been, you know, that's been turned into this kind of boutique, you know, hotel with, like, record players and in the rooms and and then, and then, it has also the element of this lore, right, of the of the mystery lights and, and, you know, this kind of, this roadside attraction. And there's also, you know, I just didn't make it into the story, but you drive a little bit outside of town, and there's a, you know, a border surveillance blimp for for Border Patrol. So there's that kind of violence on the outskirts and and all in this, you know, just this kind of beautiful open, open country, like big skies. I think the other thing we did is we went to a, you know, there was a, there's a, an observatory where you, they open it up, you know, once a month, and you can go look at, look at stars through their through their telescopes. And that was really beautiful. And really, really great. I. Um, so, yeah, all of these things kind of came together and and that was the inspiration for that story.

Michael David Wilson 30:09
And so with the real life, mystery lies. There are obviously various theories. Could they be orbs? Could they be aliens? Is there something supernatural going on. So I want to know two things. Firstly, what's your take on what the mystery lights are? And secondly, what is the wildest theory that you've heard? My

Lena Valencia 30:34
take is, you know, this kind of goes along with my, you know, kind of guiding thesis for the book, but it's, I don't really have a take. I'm kind of agnostic, you know, I did not personally see anything. I've spoken to people who have seen them. I spoke to one person writer who was like, Oh yeah, I've seen them a couple of times. And so if you believe that you've seen them, then I I believe you. I cannot say for certain what what they are, because I haven't seen them. I've seen, like, videos of them. I it was so long ago that I was doing research for the story that I actually can't remember what the most bizarre theory it was, I think the ghost I have heard that there may be that they're they're ghosts, and that seems like a little bit of a stretch to me, but again, I I don't know. Maybe you know, I'm not. I'm not one to put any of those, those down. Or, you know, they could be drones for viral marketing ploy, don't know. So, yeah, I don't, I don't, not an authority on that, so I don't know what they

Michael David Wilson 32:05
are. And since you've posited the idea of ghosts, I mean, how does that fit in with your own beliefs in terms of the supernatural or lack thereof? And I understand to jump forward to another story that you may have experienced a ghost which inspired clean hunters. So let's talk a little bit about your own beliefs and what did or didn't happen at that hotel.

Lena Valencia 32:37
Sure. Yeah, so my my husband, my boyfriend, at the time we were, we were going to, we went to this in and it was like rural Pennsylvania. I don't even remember how I how I found this place, and I was just kind of goofing off. We were, you know, having drinks on the on the porch and and I looked up the name of the inn and then haunted and realized it had been on an episode of Ghost Hunters. And this may have put that thought in our heads, but there was a very rowdy crowd at the bar, and there was a hockey game going on, and we we were we went to bed, and then I think at some point in the middle of the night, or perhaps very early in The morning, we heard a knock at the door and didn't see my husband didn't see any, anything, any shadows, kind of, because you could, it's, you know, it's an old hotel. So there wasn't, there weren't, wasn't really anything between the door and the and the floor, really. So you could kind of see underneath. And he didn't see any, any shadow there, because the light was on in the hallway. So who knows. And you know, we decided that, whether it was a knock or by a human or ghost, we didn't want to spend another night, because I also don't want like a person from the bar, trying to maybe it was, maybe it was a jiggling of the doorknob. I can't remember. I might be telling this wrong every time I tell the story, he'll, he'll remind me that I'm missing some important but he's in the other room, so not here to correct me, but that, but that's like the closest encounter I've had, besides a couple of times, some night terrors, which were actually much more, much more frightening, but definitely were, were night terrors, and, yeah, and I think it was that. You know, is that that that setting that really that inspired clean hunters, and it was also somewhat me being a little bit lazy, I started researching all the different tools that that ghost hunters use, and I was like, I don't care about this. Just gonna make them not use these. And clean hunters was was born, and I found that it actually made for a more interesting story.

Michael David Wilson 35:26
Yeah, well, I think as well with clean hunters, there's almost a dynamic as to what you will do to kind of be accepted. And so there's, like, much more, like, a kind of personal connection between the two protagonists within, you know, that story,

Lena Valencia 35:50
yeah, yeah. It's this idea that you really, you know, you can never really know someone and, and that's, yeah, that was kind of what I was what was driving, driving that that story is the idea, you know, what that would do to these two to these two characters?

Michael David Wilson 36:10
Yeah, I tend to find as well when talking about short stories, because they are short by their nature, and we don't know who's read them when they're listening to this, and who hasn't? We don't want to spoil so we want to kind of thematically skirt around the edges to elicit interest. Hopefully, yeah,

Lena Valencia 36:33
yeah. I hope I'm not, I hope I'm not spoiling them. But I don't, I don't think so. I don't think so. Yeah, it's about, it's about two, two ghost hunters who they don't, they don't use any, any electronic tools to do their to do their ghost hunting. And I think one of them stopped seeing ghosts. And how it plays out is how the story goes?

Michael David Wilson 37:01
Yeah, yeah. And I suppose, when you had that knock at the door, you know, would you want it to be a human? Would you want it to be a ghost? I don't know these days, because humans can do some pretty horrific things, you might prefer it to be a ghost.

Lena Valencia 37:20
It's true. And honestly, the ghost in that particular in seemed like pretty cool the woman would she, she would like, I think she'd like, played the fiddle at the bar and like, would go hunting, or she seemed like a, like a cool lady. So, you know, she seemed like she would be more benevolent ghost who might try to, like mess with you a little bit, but wouldn't want to do any real harm, whereas hockey fans, who knows,

Michael David Wilson 37:54
there you go. And that kind of brings us to the opening story dogs, because the protagonist and screenwriter roof, she has a dilemma. You know, would she rather be chased by a pack of stray dogs, or would she rather get into the car of a man that she doesn't know? And kind of reminded me of this thing that has been doing the rounds, I guess, a few months ago. You know, if you're a woman hiking in the woods alone, would you rather encounter a bear or a man? And I don't this is, this is kind of riffing off that, yeah,

Lena Valencia 38:35
yeah. That meme definitely came out long after I'd, I'd written this story, but, but it is, yeah, it's the same. The same idea is, you know this, this idea that these, you know, you can't, you can't really know what's going to happen when you're you know a woman who's who, who's alone, and I don't know that I'd want to encounter a man or but, yeah, that was what, what the story was, was was playing with, and this idea of of danger and kind of what we what, you know, the character perceives as dangerous, versus what it's actually Dangerous. And, then, you know, on top of that, she is a, she's someone who's kind of built her career and creating these kind of harrowing situations for these female protagonists, and which is the nature of slasher movies, right? And final girls and and kind of putting, putting that all together, and seeing what that would, you know, what having that background would do to someone worthy to be and like, kind of a real life situation,

Michael David Wilson 39:53
yeah, and I understand that you found yourself in a similar situation where you. Had to hitch hike because you were being chased by these stray dogs. So when did that happen? How did that happen? Yeah,

Lena Valencia 40:09
I mean, Chase is a little bit of a strong term. I was, I was on a writing retreat. I was in in New Mexico, and I was, I'd been working on, like, actually been working on a kind of intense scene. And was like, I just need to to kind of clear my head. So I was already in this, like, kind of weird head space and and so I went for a walk. And there was the the property that I was staying on. There was this very sweet dog that would kind of like run around and take care of everyone, and then I guess once you left it, you were there were other dogs that were not as nice and sweet. So I was walking down and I and I did, these dogs started kind of coming after me and barking. And I, you know, I think I wasn't far. I was probably, like, within five or 10 minutes from from, you know, from my rental, but, but I was not taking any chances. So when I saw, I saw an SUV drive up, I was like, I'm just gonna flag them down. It was a very nice couple, wherever they are, thank you. And but there was this one comment where, like, the you know, the driver, the driver was a man, said to me, like, Well, they probably wouldn't have done anything to you. And then his wife was like, you don't know that, and I was like, like, this, this dynamic, like, I can work with this, like I didn't, it's true. I didn't know that. And they also probably might not have done anything like, but I just, you don't, you don't know i It also made me feel very much like, like a city girl in that moment. But, yeah, I just, I remember just being, you know, absolutely terrified. I remember, like, you know, I write about that in the story is like feeling, feeling my heart and my chest, and like realizing that I, you know, there wasn't really anything I could, I could, like, I didn't really know what to do in that, in that situation, except for kind of get into a car and be driven away and but it ended up inspiring this story, so I wouldn't want it to happen again, but I guess I'm in some ways, grateful,

Michael David Wilson 42:35
yeah, and I think this is One of the more overtly horror stories in the collection, although the tension and the horror, it's not in what happens, but in the possibility of what could happen, which I tend to find is even more terrifying. So there's just this thread of foreboding throughout and anxiety. This is very much anxiety horror.

Lena Valencia 43:05
Yeah, I love that. I think that's a that's a type of horror that I really, I connect with, probably because I'm an anxious person. But that was, that was really intentional, and the story was kind of, was, was building in, in that tension, and, you know, even kind of using, like the shape of the hill, you know, as kind of as like a guiding structural shape for the story and and, and using these, this kind of external tension that she was having with her, with her daughter, and just kind of having that all kind of mixed together. And it was really important for me that that tension, like I feel like in in horror movies, there's this odd thing that happens, where sometimes when the when the scary part comes up, or went or in a slasher movie, when like someone gets stabbed, there's like this release of tension because that horrible thing has actually happened and and with the story I wanted, I didn't want that to ever come you're just kind of there suspended and, and so in some ways, it's, you know, I guess There's that, there's a sense of relief that nothing happened but, but you never get that, you know, that sort of weird satisfaction that comes with watching, watching, you know, someone good get stabbed or something on screen in a horror movie. And I say, yeah, it's yeah, I will stand by that. There is a weird satisfaction, I

Michael David Wilson 44:47
think though, that because we don't quite get that resolution, or we don't get the answers, it means that the possibility of something horrific happening continues. Off the page, so then it becomes a lingering horror. So I kind of like horror that doesn't answer everything, because then it stays with you. If you've got the stabbing for one of better phrasing, then, okay, it's a closed loop, but what you have here is an open loop, you know, in some weird kind of lynching nightmare, maybe she is perpetually for infinity, trapped within that car. We don't know.

Lena Valencia 45:31
Yeah, yeah. I really, I love that kind of horror too, that doesn't have that leaves, leaves questions. And I think that is, that is kind of a trope that you do see in horror movies. Some of it is for, you know, kind of more commercial reasons, like they want a sequel, but, but it, but I think it also, like lends to the, you know, to the story itself. Is like you see, like this evidence that, like, whatever evil you know is still lurking, you know, and, and I think that that's, that's like, you know, then you'll, you'll close the book, you'll leave the theater, and it'll still kind of be, be living with you. And I think that's, that's what I was going for with this, with this story,

Michael David Wilson 46:20
and I understand that from an early age you've been interested in and a fan of horror movies. So I'm wondering what were some of the first horror movies that really captured your attention and imagination?

Lena Valencia 46:37
Oh, um Yeah, I was probably a little young. Watched a lot of horror movies. I think the first one that really kind of affected me was the shining and, you know, it was, first of all, there was, there was a kid in it. I think I watched it when I was probably a young, young teenager, and and that one was that that really, I mean, that one really freaked me out. I think the one that I that that, like, really scared me the most. And to this day, I still kind of terrified to watch it as the exorcist. I remember watching that at a sleepover party and and just again, like the character was, I think she was actually around the same age that I was, and that was, that was terrifying. And and then as I got a little older, I started watching a lot of David Lynch, and he was, you know, his films, and then eventually Twin Peaks, which I watched, you know, when I was in college. Those, those really influenced my writing, especially kind of creating these off kilter worlds. And they, I think they really influenced a lot of the stories in mystery lights, this kind of, you know, he's very good at building this, this kind of menace, and in situations that should necessarily be menacing and and working with with nightmares like I've never seen, anyone who can really quite match his ability to to create a nightmare on screen,

Michael David Wilson 48:24
right? And I think is apropos that we're talking about David Lynch now, because the second story, you can never be too sure, is arguably the most Lynchian story in the entire collection, and it takes place on a college campus. There is a predator on the campus, but there's also this folk law, this suggestion of the trapper. And you know, we're unsure at the trapper and Predator the same. Are they distinct? Does the trapper even exists. There's something very lynching, and even the situation in which the protagonist finds herself in it, yeah, it kind of reminded me of when I was in university and you kind of drank too much. You make bad decisions, you find yourself in a situation, but you only realize you shouldn't be there when it's too late. So goodness, let's talk about that one. There's so much there.

Lena Valencia 49:30
Yeah, with that story, you know that was inspired by this, actually, it's almost nothing to do with with what actually happens in the story. But I this college that was in kind of this remote part of Colorado, and it was told that that hunters would use the showers and you. In the winter, because they would kind of, I guess, through the college. This was a long time ago. I'm sure it's much safer now. But anyway, so that that was that kind of got, got my head spinning and thinking about, about, you know, that was what kind of built this, the lore and and from there, I kind of got that voice. And the voice was very that the voice kind of pulled, pulled me through the story. It was one of those that just the voice just kind of just came, came first. And yeah, I'm trying to think of what else I have to say about you. Can never be too sure. Yeah, I think this idea that, you know, sometimes these myths are created for a reason, and in this case, it was sort of as a warning and, and, yeah, I think that's, that's what I have to say about that story.

Michael David Wilson 51:11
Yeah, did you base any of it off kind of real life interactions on college campuses or, you know things,

Lena Valencia 51:24
yeah, I mean, I think my college roommate and I would, we would sometimes, I guess, spin out a little bit about, you know, the fact, like, how easy it would be for someone to to come onto campus and maybe come into a room, and you know the reality, you know, this wasn't, you know, didn't happen to me personally, but the reality is sometimes those you know, predators or students at the school. So I was, again, kind of thinking about these different types of horror and, and, yeah, again, this wasn't based on, like, personal experience, but, but it's something that is very common on college campuses and, and that was which I was kind of responding to,

Michael David Wilson 52:21
yeah, there's something terrifying, and it fosters immense distrust when you find out that, statistically, a lot of crimes that are committed, particularly violent crimes, are committed by people who actually know you or who are in closer proximity, rather than it being a random, strange, yes, so

Lena Valencia 52:44
yeah, yeah, yeah, I should also add I was, I did I was working on this was shortly after, actually my my father was, he made a film about sexual assault on college campuses. So that was also kind of in my mind as I was, as I was working on this, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 53:04
so Did your father? Or does your father make a lot of documentaries, kind of grounded in, I suppose, what I might term real life, horror and crime, is that kind of what he's interested in, or his speciality. And do you think that kind of influenced and informed your own preferences?

Lena Valencia 53:30
Yeah. I mean, a lot of his a lot of his work, has been kind of, I would say, with, you know, with, with survivors, of, you know, sexual assault survivors that, you know, have been wronged by some kind of larger institution, and, and, and since so that was, you know, that was kind of, there were a few movies that that dealt with that, and then it kind of moved into making more films about just more kind of big, big institutions screwing people over, be it like medical industry, etc. I feel like it's kind of hard to draw a direct line between, you know, his work, because I also think like just being a woman in the world like you also kind of encounter some of some of that horror also, but, but I would say, Yeah, with you can never be too sure that was definitely kind of inspired by, by some of the work he was, he was doing and, but a lot of these are just from, unfortunately, from, like, having, you know, keep being, being, being alive.

Michael David Wilson 54:53
Yeah, unfortunately, there's a lot of horror just through existence. Yes, yes, yes. And so, I mean, I'm wondering, since you said that you wrote this while your dad was working on this specific documentary, what is the oldest story within this collection, or the story that you kind of got the gem for the idea the longest time ago? I'm wondering what period these stories span in terms of oldest to most recent,

Lena Valencia 55:26
yeah? So just to clarify like, yeah, you can never be too sure. I think that was written. It was it was probably a couple years after that, that that the the film about the assault on college campus is called The Hunting Ground. It was probably a couple years after that came out that I wrote it. But I think the oldest story in the collection. I think it is, I think it's clean hunters. I think that's the oldest story in the collection. A lot of a handful of these stories, or maybe it's just about three of them were from a previous collection that I've been working on but never got published. But I felt like some of the themes were similar to what I was working on with the with some of the desert stories and some of the newer stories, so I kind of I moved them over. So I would say, in all these stories, is probably like a 10 year period that I was working on them. The newest one, the newest one is actually the last story in the book vermillion. That one I wrote in the span of a couple of months. My editor asked me if I had any other stories for the collection. And I was like, Yeah, I do. And it was maybe a page of notes, so I was able to turn that into a whole story pretty quickly, but yeah, about a decade worth of work.

Michael David Wilson 56:56
So your editor asked for another story. Were there any that were cut from the original submission?

Lena Valencia 57:05
Yeah, she didn't actually, I mean, I think she was just asking if there were any out there. But yeah, there was one story that didn't quite, that didn't make it in. It was actually published in lady Churchill's rose bud wristlet. It is called blood pool. I felt like the voice was a little similar, actually, to the voice, and you can never be too sure and and it was also kind of close to to the voice and bright lights, big deal. And I didn't want that kind of that voice to sort of overtake the collection. So my editor and I decided to to pull that one

Michael David Wilson 57:46
out right and bright lights, big deal is, of course, a very on the nose nod to Jay mcinerry. And of course, the second person perspective that goes with that. And it's, of course, a story that is unabashedly New York. So I mean, did you want to have, I suppose, as a nod towards where you are now, this very New York story within this desert collection, almost enclosed within a desert setting.

Lena Valencia 58:26
Yeah, when I, when I was working on that one, you know, I wasn't really thinking of it in terms of even fitting into the collection at all. Again, it was when I was kind of looking at the stories as a whole that I was like, well, this kind of, this does have some, some connection with, with some of these other stories in here. You know, there was, there's the kind of, the sexual harassment, kind of violence against women, sort of sub plot that that happens. And then also these, you know, these two, two women kind of in in competition with each other. So I thought that kind of spoke to other stories in the collection in a way that, you know, while it didn't share a setting, and it doesn't really have, like, the same sort of supernatural horror elements that some of the other stories have I thought it, it fit in, you know, I would say it's definitely kind of an outlier. And I've had people, you know me, you know, why is it? Why is it there? There's nothing, you know, there's nothing weird and but, but I kind of,

Michael David Wilson 59:36
I think it fits really well into the the collection particularly. I mean, when you're looking at the human horror of dogs, then you can never be too sure. I think it would be odd to say that bright lights, big deal doesn't also fit in within that genre. And I mean. There's a line that's very killing, and I'm going to completely butcher it. And it's when the protagonist is talking about, you know, this awful thing that has happened to her friend, you know, this sexual assault, this sexual predatory behavior, and then just some guy says, oh, you know, I don't know if that's really a story. It happens all the time, and that is, unfortunately, the attitude held by a number of people.

Lena Valencia 1:00:34
Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, this was, I think I had someone in my writing group call this story like pre two, because it takes place before me too. But sadly, I feel like we are like on the other side of it, and I sometimes wonder, you know, I think there was a lot of progress made, but I feel like we're backsliding. So unfortunately, but yeah, that is a that was a terrifying line to me as well, even though I came up with it.

Michael David Wilson 1:01:11
Yeah, I can certainly see why there might be things that have happened recently that would lead people to think that we could be backsliding. But goodness, let's hope that things get back on track at some point. But is Yeah, is terrifying. Is terrifying?

Lena Valencia 1:01:32
Yeah, yeah, yes, agreed.

Michael David Wilson 1:01:37
And I mean, in this particular story, too. The protagonist almost has this dichotomy, because she's desperate to make it particularly before her parents money runs out there. You know that she's got that's facilitating her living in New York, but kind of her big opportunity is then to betray her best friend by selling this story, you know, this private story that she was told in confidence. So there's a lot of moving pieces again in this one.

Lena Valencia 1:02:16
Yeah, yeah. I think this one is really, you know, it's about being being young and kind of learning how to, how to be a human in the world, and I think that that's a time when, I mean, we always make mistakes, right? But I think that's a time when a lot of, a lot of mistakes are made. And I wanted to, I wanted to show to kind of show that now

Michael David Wilson 1:02:41
in the notes for the collection, you mentioned that the print in Julia's apartment is Brooklyn Bridge by Georgia O'Keeffe. If we backtrack to the previous story, the white place, this is also inspired the painter is based on parts, parts of Georgia O'Keeffe's life. So, I mean, how important is Georgia O'Keeffe to you? And is this where the story started? The White place,

Lena Valencia 1:03:18
um, you know, I think I love, I like Georgia, Keith work, and I think she's, like, very important painter. I was more, I was really interested in, kind of the myth of Georgia, O'Keeffe and, and kind of, I don't think I've ever been anywhere, you know, I was in, I was in abiquiu and, and in Santa Fe I don't think I've ever been somewhere where, like, a woman painter has been, like, as admired, and just, you know, she's just, she's just everywhere, which is, it's, it was kind of just incredible to me, I and wonderful in some ways. But also, like, you know, it was, yeah, it was just, it was, it was cool. So, so that was kind of what I was, what I was looking at in the white place. And that story actually started, it was, it started with the there was another voice that was in, kind of the in contemporary times, you know. And because the story set in the 70s and and, and the Orb was kind of the connective, connective thread through, through these voices. And then I realized that I was just more interested in in the characters in the in the 1970s timeline. So I, so I cut that. But it actually, it started out as as a contemporary story with the idea of Georgia, O'Keeffe kind of in the background, and then and but eventually that, that kind of fell away,

Michael David Wilson 1:04:56
yeah. And, of course, another element that we haven't. Mentioned the UFOs. And as we said before, I mean, there's a certain suggestion of UFOs in mystery lights too. So is this an ongoing curiosity of yours? Do you personally believe in UFOs? Again,

Lena Valencia 1:05:19
I am kind of agnostic about them. There's, I mean, yeah, there are things that are seen in the sky, and people don't know what what they are. So in that sense, yes, I was kind of the reason that the UFOs, you know, made it in is because I they're often, a lot of them are seen in the desert, and that's kind of tied into to this, you know, these myths, these, this lore that we have about about the desert as a place and but I am Not someone that, yeah, I'm, again, I'm I'm like, if you you believe what, what you want to believe. I don't I. I do not know that much about about UFOs, so I can't really speak to them. But you know, I know people you know claim to have seen them. So who am I to say?

Michael David Wilson 1:06:21
Yeah, I tend to find that my belief on both ghosts and the UFOs is almost similar to the X Files in that I want to believe it's like I haven't seen something, but, you know, let's, let's show me something not, not too violent, like, just a relatively friendly ghost, like, like the one that you mentioned in the inn who just plays music and things that a cool ghost.

Lena Valencia 1:06:56
Yeah, and I want to hear your stories about them, right? I love, I love a ghost story. I, you know, tell me your UFO stories. Tell me your ghost stories. Creep me out, like that's what I love about this, you know, the the supernatural and the unknown is kind of the stories that that they inspire.

Michael David Wilson 1:07:13
I just think too, that this possibility adds another dimension to life and to the world. It just makes the universe more exciting. Yeah, yeah. And, I mean,

Lena Valencia 1:07:27
that was something that I think I kind of added in a later draft of clean hunters, is this idea that, you know it, there's the idea that there's something, there's something beyond, beyond what we know. And, I mean, there, is, right, but, but, but, yeah, I think, like ghosts and UFOs are kind of a symbol of that, whether they are, you know, how they're portrayed in the various media that we consume, whether that's real or not, or, you know, some something entirely different. But yeah, again, like, I feel like you go to a party and ask people to tell you about a time that they saw a ghost, you're gonna get some really interesting responses. And so in that way, it's like, kind of brings people together in a funny way. Now,

Michael David Wilson 1:08:19
you mentioned before the vermilion was the latest story that you wrote, and I wonder if a million and drug Lesnar companion pieces, because yeah, there certainly the similarity in terms of missing people, albeit one of them returns from this bizarre cave system, although something has gone on when she returns, is not quite the same. Are they meant to be companion pieces, or is it just, thematically, they have similar concerns.

Lena Valencia 1:09:00
They are. They're kind of in the same in the same universe, right? Because in in Vermillion, like the couple is listening to a, to a podcast that, like that is about what happened in the in troglosine. So they are. It's like the, you know, like the mystery lights universe. I wrote vermillion after I wrote trousine. And again, I thought it would be. I thought that it was as I was conceiving of it. It was, it was already kind of sharing that theme of kind of a lost a lost girl, right? And and so I thought that it would, it would make sense to kind of have them link together. And there was a certain point as I was working on the stories, where I considered making them linked, but it would have just been too imposing, too much artificial structure onto them. And I don't think they. To hold up to it. But those two, I did, I did decide to link. I love, I love a link collection, and I love those. It's almost like Easter eggs. And so I put it in.

Michael David Wilson 1:10:14
Yeah, I think as soon as you realize you know, the podcast they're listening to is about the story you just read, like, four stories ago. You're like, hang on a minute. Was what's going on here? And, I mean, I think that they're both, you know, incredibly effective, but it goodness that with troglozine, it is just so disquieting. You know, somebody, when somebody goes missing, usually when they're found, that's the relief, that's the end, that's the resolution. But you know, in in in this situation, there's almost like the inciting incident. That's when the horror really steps up.

Lena Valencia 1:11:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one was, yeah. I wanted to, I wanted to think about, kind of what, what the aftermath would be. I mean, that was inspired by that the cave rescue in Thailand, like, very, very loosely inspired by it. And it was this one word that was used, which was quarantine, that the, you know, the boys had to be put in quarantine, obviously, so they wouldn't, you know, spread any illness. But at that time, this was pre COVID, I was like, oh, quarantine. Like, what did they what happened to them down there, and that was when my mind started moving to something more like science fiction. So that was kind of where, how,

Michael David Wilson 1:11:54
how's something post COVID that has affected the kind of response to the word quarantine. Now it shifted meaning. It shifted the image that it conjures up.

Lena Valencia 1:12:11
Definitely. Yeah, it is much less science fiction. Now, much, much less fiction. But that's, that's what happens, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 1:12:25
now I know that we're coming up to the time that we have together today, but we haven't even mentioned the reclamation yet, and I know that we don't have enough time to really dive deep into it. But I mean goodness, in terms of the satire on wellness culture, I wonder, were there any particular incidents or cults or influences that you really drew upon? I mean, there's, there's so many that you could have drawn up on, quite frankly,

Lena Valencia 1:13:03
um, a lot of them without naming names, since I don't want to get in trouble. But I for that one, it was this idea that, you know, really, anyone can get drawn in to these situations. I'm not saying anyone can, you know, it won't spoil anything, but that that that story gets very violent. And I'm not saying that anyone is capable of that, but, but I think, you know, people are very open to to persuasion. And we always think, like, oh, well, that can never be me. And like, I'm not gullible, but if you're in the right place at the right time and someone's saying the right thing, I think we're all you know that could be any of us. And I was interesting, interested in exploring that. And one book that I found useful as I was kind of revising that story, just in terms of thinking about like language was this non fiction book called cultish by Amanda Montel. And she kind of takes that same, the same thesis that I had for the story, which is this idea that, you know, we're, we are, we are all kind of vulnerable to this that you know, this this sort of language, if it's the right person speaking to us, and they're taught speaking the right way. And so I wanted to show what it would look like for one character to kind of be seduced by this charismatic leader, and then someone else to kind of fall, fall away from that, and start to realize that, like, Oh, this is someone else who comes in a believer, and then and kind of leaves a skeptic to kind of look at, examine both, both sides of that. And also, I'd been listening to some it was during COVID lockdown. Been listening to some self help podcasts. And I don't want to like, if self help helps you, then please keep listening to it. But some of them were, I was just like, this is this language is so like, as an I can't so that was kind of where, where the inspiration for the for the story, came from and, and I think that a lot of times there are, you know, bad actors that use language from, you know, therapy and and, and to try to kind of make, make money for themselves. And that's when you have to, that's when you kind of have to watch out when they have some ulterior motive. So that's what I was looking at with that story. And I was also it's kind of structured. It's structured like a like a horror, kind of like a horror thriller. Things slowly get more and more weird and violent as the days go on at this retreat.

Michael David Wilson 1:16:04
Yeah, I think this is definitely another one that has that Lynchian vibe, particularly the dynamic between the protagonist Pat who is getting deeper and deeper into this wellness cult, and then the skeptic Celeste and just watching, yeah, how they interact with one another. And as Pat goes deeper, the horror kind of amplifies, yeah,

Lena Valencia 1:16:35
yeah, yeah. And then once they get there's a scene where's the end, that's in the open desert, and that's when things get really, really crazy and weird. It was a fun, fun part to write crazy

Michael David Wilson 1:16:48
and weird, to understate the situation somewhat. But yes, yeah,

Lena Valencia 1:16:53
well, I don't want to try not to spoil it. Yeah, yeah, there's blood. Blood is spilled. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 1:17:02
yeah. I think horror fans will not be disappointed with that one. So,

Lena Valencia 1:17:08
no, I think that's one of the few stories in the collection where, like, there's actually, you know, it's not just about the idea of, like, impending horror. It's like the horror. It's pretty it's there and it's pretty clear.

Michael David Wilson 1:17:24
Yeah, but I certainly think that this one will appeal to, you know, horror fans throughout because, as we said at the start, just having this thread of tension, this thread of foreboding that permeates the collection, like there's always an unease. It's like, if I find myself trapped in a lane of Valencia story, I'm going to want to get out. This is not, this is not a good place to be. Stuff is gonna kick off.

Lena Valencia 1:17:59
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's, it's funny, as I was working on these, and as I was, you know, querying for the collection, I never, I thought of them as, you know, kind of genre bending, but I never really thought of it as pure, as horror. And it wasn't really until I started getting such a like, warm response from the horror community, which is wonderful. The community is really great that I kind of started seeing it as horror. And a lot of these are, they are horror. So that's been a really kind of just great little treat in terms of putting a book out into the world. It's, you know, you you forget that readers are going to see it differently than you, than you intended. And sometimes that's really, that's, that's a nice thing.

Michael David Wilson 1:18:47
Yeah, I think, like so much good fiction, mystery lights, is something that can't really neatly be put into a genre box. I mean, yes, it is horror, it's also social commentary, it's literature, it's speculative fiction, it's all of these things. You know, sometimes people will try to have a binary, it's this or it's that. When it's both, it's everything.

Lena Valencia 1:19:19
Yeah, I think it's dangerous to try to write just to you know, or at least for me, I don't like trying to fit in right, just to fit into a certain genre box. I feel like that kind of kills any creativity that I have. So they're a little little all over the place. But I I like reading stuff that does that. So I hope people like reading my work too.

Michael David Wilson 1:19:45
Yeah, I think the only thing we can really do to have creative satisfaction is to write something that is authentically us and that we want to write. And you know, if you try to write for a specific. Specific market, it can be a trap. I mean, not only is it likely to suck a lot of the joy out of what you're doing in the first place, but the irony is, if you start writing for the market, by the time you finish, that trend is gone, so you might as well just write the story that you want to write.

Lena Valencia 1:20:20
Yeah, that's really good advice, and that's something I try to convey, you know, when I'm, when I'm talking to, to writers who ask, who ask about that is, you know, you don't know, you know it's going to be werewolves or vampires next year. So if, if you like, you know, zombies, write your zombie book, you know, but write it in the way that you want to, you know, write the zombie what book you want to read, I guess,

Michael David Wilson 1:20:48
exactly. And the only story that we have yet to mention is the penultimate story, Reaper ranch. And it's kind of apropos that we mention it because it's almost full circle, because the dedication to the collection is to your grandmother, and I believe that this one was based on, or kind of loosely inspired from your grandmother's real life diary that she gave to you after the passing of your grandfather.

Lena Valencia 1:21:22
Yeah, yeah. She I, you know, found she gave me a lot of her correspondence, and one of those was this kind of grief diary that she kept where she was, the entries were all addressed to him, and the story has nothing to do with my grandmother except for that form, which I found, like, very compelling. So I, you know, so I kind of use that to write this, this sort of supernatural horror, horror story through, you know, through diary entries, which is a form that was really, is kind of is challenging, and it was, and it was fun to work with. And, yeah, I think the real challenge with that, and this is something, you know, I have a writing group, and I showed it to them, was making sure that, you know, people believed the the narrator, and didn't, you know, assume that she was just having, you know, dementia or something, and and really trying to kind of keep it grounded in that way. But, um, yeah, and it was also, it was about, it was about grief. I mean, that was the other thing I took, you know, out of the out of the diary, because it was, it was a grief diary. And yeah,

Michael David Wilson 1:22:52
for those listening who might want to write a diary format or an epistolary story, do you have any advice in terms of what they could do to execute that most effectively or equally, some of the things that they might want to avoid? Oh, man,

Lena Valencia 1:23:13
I'm working in that form right now, so I would like advice too. Uh, let me think for a second on that one. I think it's important to remember that while it is in the epistolary form, you are also writing a piece of fiction. So you know, if you're reading an actual diary, it might have, you know, something like today, I, you know, went to the library and checked out this book, and in your fictional diary, you you have to have something that's kind of going to work within, within the plot, and, And, and, I think that's, that's the biggest challenge. There's, there's, there's going to be this sort of, this artifice and, and it's kind of getting learning to kind of work, work with that, but still make it feel like a, like a real diary. And, but, but, yeah, it is. It's a, it's a hard form to write in, but there have been, you know, two classic works of horror. You know, Dracula and Frankenstein are both epistolary novels. So look at look at those, and you can learn everything you need to know. Don't listen to me. Yeah, that's my advice.

Michael David Wilson 1:24:43
So in terms of the future, you've said that you're working on a novel. You said that you're working on something epistolary now. So does that mean that the novel that you're working on is an entire. A pistol Larry piece.

Lena Valencia 1:25:03
I don't know if it's gonna be. It's still a little early days right now, even though I'm like, you know, a ways in but, but I think that's gonna be a large part of it will be and, and, you know, kind of these documents and letters, so that's what I've been working with right now. Is

Michael David Wilson 1:25:28
there anything further that you can say about this novel? And the answer might be, no,

Lena Valencia 1:25:37
this is it is going to be horror like it is. It is a horror novel, but that's and there are monsters that's about, that's all I can say.

Michael David Wilson 1:25:48
Well, I think that's enough to pique the interest of everyone listening to This Is Horror. So thank you so much for spending such a long time your evening chat and to me today.

Lena Valencia 1:26:02
Thank you, Michael. This is really fun. I really appreciate you having me on the show and highlighting mystery lights. So

Michael David Wilson 1:26:10
where can our listeners connect with you?

Lena Valencia 1:26:15
I am on blue sky, just my name, Lena Valencia, and then also same on on Instagram, and then website, which is again, Lena valencia.com

Michael David Wilson 1:26:29
Okay, do you have any final thoughts to leave the listeners with? Oh,

Lena Valencia 1:26:35
man, I don't know. Keep keep reading. Keep writing. How we get through the horror of reality? That's that's all I got. Be kind to each other. I don't know. Yeah, all right, thank you again. Thank you so much. Have a great night.

Michael David Wilson 1:26:59
Thank you for listening to This Is Horror Podcast. If you enjoy the show and want to support us, then please consider becoming a patron a patreon.com forward slash, This Is Horror. You'll get early bird access to each and every episode, and you can submit questions to the interviewee. You'll also automatically become a member of the This Is Horror discord, and every year there are bonus episodes for patrons only, such as story unboxed the horror podcast on the craft of writing, in which Bob and I and sometimes a special guest, will dissect a short story or film and let you know writing lessons and takeaways to improve your own writing. Another great way to support us is to leave us a review on the Apple podcast app or website. And if you want to watch the video version of the This Is Horror Podcast, join us on YouTube. Youtube.com, forward slash at This Is Horror Podcast. You can subscribe there and get notified every time there is a new video. And however you support us, I thank you in advance. Okay, before I wrap up, a quick advert break,

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Michael David Wilson 1:29:28
it is almost time for me to leave you for this episode, but I have a final ask, a final request, and that is, if you are interested in reading a dark comedy, very much emphasis on comedy, then I would love it if you would pre order my forthcoming book, daddy's boy. It is available on May 6, in paperback and ebook and audio, narrated by Joshua. In, and you can pre order it now in ebook on Amazon, or you can pre order the paper back directly from This Is Horror. And when you do that, you will, in fact, get the ebook ahead of the crowd. And if you're on the edge about daddy's boy, or you want to experience it a little bit more, you can become a patron, a patreon.com, forward slash Michael David Wilson, completely free of charge, and you will get to read Chapter One of daddy's boy in its entirety and very soon, I will also be putting up chapter one in audio form. So the Michael David Wilson Patreon, which is patreon.com forward slash. Michael David Wilson, there are paid tears, but there is also the free tier. At the free tier, you are gonna get Chapter One of daddy's boy. It is not behind the pay wall, so do check that out. Do support me if that is of interest. But with that said, until next time with Sophia ashram, take care of yourselves. Be good to one another. Read horror, keep on writing and have a Great, great day.